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Cretodecristo

Lurker
Sep 13, 2022
10
24
Greetings!

Recently, I picked up about a dozen 1oz samples of tobacco from smokingpipes. I have a question based on my obervations, and I’m hoping that you more experienced pipers could teach me a thing or two.

I’ve noticed that there are not many aromatic blends that are highly rated at tobaccoreviews.com. Is this because aromatics are more “beginner-friendly” blends while English blends are for the more “mature” palette?

My experience with an English blend began with Father Dempsey. I didn’t like it too much, and after reading reviews on Tobaccoreview.com, I realized that I did not like the sour notes. (He’s a learner!) Generally speaking, I do not like sour unless it is secondary to sweet. Similar idea with bitter. I just don’t like it. Is this representative of English blends? Or are Englishes defined by the presence of Latakia?

Meanwhile, I tried an English aromatic, C&D’s Sweet English. I truly enjoyed this blend! It smoked quickly, but I thought it was a pleasant experience—even down to the caramel smell that lingered in my mustache! Is this representative of English Aromatics?

The Virginia blend I tried, Three Friars, was very good. It seemed to be a clean smoke. The lingering sweet taste after the bowl finished blew me away. I learned that there are different Virginias, and each have different tastes. What is it that provides the sweetness? In a similar vein, is Cavendash sweet as Latakia is smokey?

Lastly, I have tried a few aromatic blends. Irish Blessing and Lane Limited’s 1Q were both okay, but not as aromatic or as flavorful as I thought they’d be. I also picked up 2oz of a chocolate blend from a local B&M, only to not have met my expectations. Contrary to my expectations, I enjoyed the sweetness of Three Friars and Sweet English more. Is that a thing when it comes to aromatics, they might not be goopy and sweet?

These are the questions I have for now.

Thx.
 
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Merton

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 8, 2020
941
2,499
Boston, Massachusetts
First, welcome. This is a learning and appreciation process. Here are some tobacco suggestion: buy an Amphora sampler ( original, full, virginia,english and Burley). All are good representations of their particular type of blend. As for other virginia blends (there are many) try orlik flake. For an English style Blend Presbyterian is enjoyable and not a Latakia bomb. Dan tobacco Devil's Holiday and C&D Autumn evening both are very flavorful aromatics. Finally, Cavendish is not a type of tobacco but is a process of treating a variety of tobacco. Best of luck. There is a lot of knowledge here and lots of folks willing to help.
 
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vosBghos

Lifer
May 7, 2022
1,523
3,362
Idaho
2cents , with Father Dempsey , I’ll trade out your sour for skunk , though I don’t know what leaf is causing it I do detect a bit more of it in Petersons NightCap. Rest assured there are plenty English/Scottish/Balkan blends that do not have that skunk in them, jar it up though as your palate develops you might want to go back to it. I found myself returning to blends and buying them by the 1/2 pound though when I first smoked them I thought they were gross.
I would say the presence of Latakia is definitely a determiner of and English blend though not a definer. I’m not good with cut and paste on my iPad but search the forums for ” what is an English” or something similar and you will be hit with plenty of reliable info. Sure some others will pipe in with a good starter english , or as above the sampler pack is good advice, welcome to the obsession 😉🤣🤣
 
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captpat

Lifer
Dec 16, 2014
2,265
12,140
North Carolina
I don't recommend that beginners/newbie's start on aromatics, though many gravitate to that genre because they are well.... aromatic. The down side is that they are frequently treated with a lot of additives to achieve the aroma. These additives can complicate the piping experience especially for a beginner. Try a codger blend (e.g., Carter Hall, Prince Albert, SWR, etc.) to start, those blends are pretty reliable, smoke well and will help getting good habits established when it come to packing and pace. When I started I purchased a lot of complex (highly rated) tobacco's, including aromatics, in retrospect I did not fully appreciate them though I did get a lot of tongue bite.
 

Cretodecristo

Lurker
Sep 13, 2022
10
24
I don't recommend that beginners/newbie's start on aromatics, though many gravitate to that genre because they are well.... aromatic. The down side is that they are frequently treated with a lot of additives to achieve the aroma. These additives can complicate the piping experience especially for a beginner. Try a codger blend (e.g., Carter Hall, Prince Albert, SWR, etc.) to start, those blends are pretty reliable, smoke well and will help getting good habits established when it come to packing and pace. When I started I purchased a lot of complex (highly rated) tobacco's, including aromatics, in retrospect I did not fully appreciate them though I did get a lot of tongue bite.
Thankfully, I have learned to mediate tongue bite so that it doesn’t happen very often anymore. Mostly, I just had to slow down.

At first, didn’t know where to start, so I just picked random tobacco blends in particular families. I included aromatics, burleys, Englishes, an English aromatic, an oriental, and Virginias. This was pretty much a custom built “sampler pack,” and I am glad I exposed myself to the variety I did. I have been going to tobaccoreviews.com to compare my experience with the reviews so I can identify what I am tasting.

My experience has been that I do not appreciate the aromatics as much as I like the Virginias. However, of what I tasted, I prefer aromatics over English. That is why the English aromatic (Sweet English) really surprised me! That could possibly be a blend I buy more of and put into rotation.

2cents , with Father Dempsey , I’ll trade out your sour for skunk , though I don’t know what leaf is causing it I do detect a bit more of it in Petersons NightCap. Rest assured there are plenty English/Scottish/Balkan blends that do not have that skunk in them, jar it up though as your palate develops you might want to go back to it.
Funny enough, I bought a dozen pint ball jars yesterday. Originally, I had all the 1oz bags together in the cardboard box they arrived in. I did not know if they would eventually start to bleed into each other. I’ll “cellar” the Father Dempsey and see if it is something I return to. In your opinion, would the “skunk” you mentioned possibly go away with age?

It has been quite the experience testing so many blends without really knowing what I was doing! Memories of my dad smoking some kind of cherry tobacco led me to order Cult’s Blood Red Moon. It was a recommendation by a YouTube piper. So far, I bought the aromatics thinking I would be able to taste flavors that I know I like. I’m sure that has been the reason for the disappointment I have experienced with them. Time will tell.
 
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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,253
108,359
Is this because aromatics are more “beginner-friendly” blends while English blends are for the more “mature” palette?
Other way around. I'd bet some of those reviews are done by smokers with just a few years experience. English blends are very user friendly while aromatics can take a long time of technique perfection to fully enjoy.
 
Pick up some Arango Balkan Supreme. If you don’t like it, then English is not for you right now. It’s a flavorful but milder English and fairly reasonably priced by the ounce. It used to be cheap until it became so popular..

Don’t be afraid to try burleys. They are usually kind on the mouth and whether you know it or not, Burleys are in just about every blend out there. Some excellent and inexpensive examples include Old Joe Kranz (blue for milder, regular for stronger), Pegasus (which is more of a Bur/Va), even Crooner which has honey, and an herb called Deertongue for a unique and wonderful flavor, all from C&D and can be purchased by the ounce.

Like Embers said, leave the true aromatics alone for now. They are famous for bite and often disappoint until you have mastered the craft. I am not there yet but do enjoy some McClelland Aros like Golden Toasted and Pastry.
 

bullet08

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
8,932
37,916
RTP, NC. USA
Aromatics.. It will take time. Until then, it won't taste like the tin note or what you think that blend should taste like. Comes with time. Or you might just skip it all together. English is perfect for beginners. Latakia is very easily noticed and enjoy or hate per the smoker. Burley, I'm not into burley, but OTC codger blends have it.. Some of 'em. Virginia and it's related blends, usually that's where beginners get tongue bite due to burning hotter, but seems you already figured out how to prevent tongue bite. So, the honest truth is, smoke whatever you like. Some will take time to appreciate, but only time can help with that.
 

SBC

Lifer
Oct 6, 2021
1,519
7,243
NE Wisconsin
The fact that you're working through this systematically means that you'll figure out the categories, and how you like them, in time. Keep it up.

To answer your questions directly:

(a) I'll second what others have said about aromatics. There is a popular conception that they are newbie tobaccos, scorned by experienced smokers. This may have something to do with the fact that many guys' grandpas were cultural philistines who drank Folgers and smoked cherry aromatics, ergo aromatics are the equivalent of Folgers.

The reality is that you have to have a palette for tobacco -- and experience managing it -- before your palette and mind can parse out and appreciate aromatic toppings. Most of the critics are newbies trying distance themselves from other newbies -- trying to seem sophisticated.

(b) I'll avoid defining "English" tobacco. That question is fraught with differing cultural norms and marketing histories. Suffice it to say that, in common parlance among American pipe smokers, an English blend usually means one in which Latakia is quite noticeable.

Do not judge Englishes by one with an uncharacteristic note.

The line between "English" and "Aromatic English" is not a hard one. It's more of a sliding scale. Since you like some sweetness in your English (as do I), try GLP "Quiet Nights" and Boswell's "Northwoods." These two move towards sweet on that sliding scale, while remaining Englishes (in many folks' opinion).

(c) Yes, Virginia can have a very clean and natural feel -- sometimes with a grassy or sweet hay-like character. Some of us prefer it over other tobacco genres. Some guys even smoke it exclusively.

The world of Virginias has its own variety, as you mentioned, but three sub-sets to explore include Dark (Astley 44, Wessex Campaign, etc.), Red (Capstan Blue, GLP Union Square, etc.), and Bright or Yellow (there's a high content of this in C&D Opening Night, for instance).
But Virginias can be even more finicky than aromatics to learn to smoke well. They are particular about being packed too loosely or too tightly, and they are tasty only in a very narrow heat range. You have to keep them on the verge of going out, without actually going out. If they burn hotter than that at all, they grow harsh and ashy and burnt. Of course, keeping it on the verge of going out, without having to relight 999x per bowl, takes experience.

English will be more forgiving at first. Work towards managing Virginias well, a little later on. You may love them better, but you may not be ready to discover that yet.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
The thing about being new to pipe smoking is that you have not yet found your range on tobacco flavors. Things you don't like now you may well grow to like eventually, and things you enjoy may fade as passing fancies. You kind of learn blends, and it can sometimes take months or years with long pauses in between. So keep an open mind. You have the right idea buying small quantities of many blends. Save what you don't like and try it again in a year; you may be greatly surprised by at least one or two of those. I wouldn't buy anything in quantity for two or three years.
 

Cretodecristo

Lurker
Sep 13, 2022
10
24
Pick up some Arango Balkan Supreme. If you don’t like it, then English is not for you right now. It’s a flavorful but milder English and fairly reasonably priced by the ounce. It used to be cheap until it became so popular..

Don’t be afraid to try burleys. They are usually kind on the mouth and whether you know it or not, Burleys are in just about every blend out there. Some excellent and inexpensive examples include Old Joe Kranz (blue for milder, regular for stronger), Pegasus (which is more of a Bur/Va), even Crooner which has honey, and an herb called Deertongue for a unique and wonderful flavor, all from C&D and can be purchased by the ounce.

Like Embers said, leave the true aromatics alone for now. They are famous for bite and often disappoint until you have mastered the craft. I am not there yet but do enjoy some McClelland Aros like Golden Toasted and Pastry.
Strangely enough, I ordered an ounce of Balkan Supreme but have yet to smoke it. I’ll give it a try soon.

For burleys I have Pegasus and Morley’s Best. I know I smoked a bowl of Morley’s Best, but I did not write down my thoughts on it. I don’t remember what it was like.

It is fascinating to learn that different tobaccos prefer to be smoked at different temps. That would explain a lot of the “meh” tastes I experienced when I started out. I couldn’t tell a lot of tobacco blends apart because they all tasted the same.

The fact that you're working through this systematically means that you'll figure out the categories, and how you like them, in time. Keep it up.

To answer your questions directly:

(a) I'll second what others have said about aromatics. There is a popular conception that they are newbie tobaccos, scorned by experienced smokers. This may have something to do with the fact that many guys' grandpas were cultural philistines who drank Folgers and smoked cherry aromatics, ergo aromatics are the equivalent of Folgers.

The reality is that you have to have a palette for tobacco -- and experience managing it -- before your palette and mind can parse out and appreciate aromatic toppings. Most of the critics are newbies trying distance themselves from other newbies -- trying to seem sophisticated.

(b) I'll avoid defining "English" tobacco. That question is fraught with differing cultural norms and marketing histories. Suffice it to say that, in common parlance among American pipe smokers, an English blend usually means one in which Latakia is quite noticeable.

Do not judge Englishes by one with an uncharacteristic note.

The line between "English" and "Aromatic English" is not a hard one. It's more of a sliding scale. Since you like some sweetness in your English (as do I), try GLP "Quiet Nights" and Boswell's "Northwoods." These two move towards sweet on that sliding scale, while remaining Englishes (in many folks' opinion).

(c) Yes, Virginia can have a very clean and natural feel -- sometimes with a grassy or sweet hay-like character. Some of us prefer it over other tobacco genres. Some guys even smoke it exclusively.

The world of Virginias has its own variety, as you mentioned, but three sub-sets to explore include Dark (Astley 44, Wessex Campaign, etc.), Red (Capstan Blue, GLP Union Square, etc.), and Bright or Yellow (there's a high content of this in C&D Opening Night, for instance).
But Virginias can be even more finicky than aromatics to learn to smoke well. They are particular about being packed too loosely or too tightly, and they are tasty only in a very narrow heat range. You have to keep them on the verge of going out, without actually going out. If they burn hotter than that at all, they grow harsh and ashy and burnt. Of course, keeping it on the verge of going out, without having to relight 999x per bowl, takes experience.

English will be more forgiving at first. Work towards managing Virginias well, a little later on. You may love them better, but you may not be ready to discover that yet.
This is super helpful! Speaking to your first point; I can’t seem to shake the desire to enjoy some cased aromatics. Admittedly, I have some good memories of my dad smoking a cherry blend and drinking Folgers. Hahaha!
 

FLDRD

Lifer
Oct 13, 2021
1,668
6,202
Arkansas
* "Generally speaking, I do not like sour unless it is secondary to sweet. Similar idea with bitter. I just don’t like it. Is this representative of English blends? Or are Englishes defined by the presence of Latakia?"

* I would venture that this is the Oriental / Turkish leaf in the blend. Some English blends have more, others less. Don't be surprised if it appeals more to you in the future. But you can get English blends with much less of that sour note.

I'll 2nd the point that English are forgiving and can help one acquire good skills & techniques.
 

Sam Gamgee

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 24, 2022
648
1,678
49
DFW, Texas
I’m not sure if others have experienced this, but I’ve found that most of the bulk, big jar aromatics in shops, while they may *smell* different, end up *tasting* pretty much the same in the end. This has led me to conclude that most of them are really the same thing with slight variations to make them smell different. People often buy with their noses when it comes to tobacco.

The OTC or “codger” blends are a good recommendation. Captain Black Gold, Carter Hall, et al, usually have a more complex taste than the bulk jar blends, in my opinion.
 
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I’m not sure if others have experienced this, but I’ve found that most of the bulk, big jar aromatics in shops, while they may *smell* different, end up *tasting* pretty much the same in the end. This has led me to conclude that most of them are really the same thing with slight variations to make them smell different. People often buy with their noses when it comes to tobacco.

The OTC or “codger” blends are a good recommendation. Captain Black Gold, Carter Hall, et al, usually have a more complex taste than the bulk jar blends, in my opinion.
I have never walked into a tobacconist and bought an OTC blend, but I have smelled Lane 1Q many times labeled with other names.
 

Sam Gamgee

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 24, 2022
648
1,678
49
DFW, Texas
I have never walked into a tobacconist and bought an OTC blend, but I have smelled Lane 1Q many times labeled with other names.
I walked into a local shop recently and had a nice conversation with the fellow running the place. I asked him if his big jar blends were Lane or something along those lines just slightly altered and relabeled. He didn’t want to talk about it so I let the matter drop. It seemed like the polite thing to do. Most of the stuff smelled and looked the same, just with different (and some very creative) names. I bought a bag of some vanilla-y blend and it was pretty good.
 
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Mtlpiper

Can't Leave
Nov 30, 2019
349
2,531
Montreal, QC
I’m not sure if others have experienced this, but I’ve found that most of the bulk, big jar aromatics in shops, while they may *smell* different, end up *tasting* pretty much the same in the end. This has led me to conclude that most of them are really the same thing with slight variations to make them smell different. People often buy with their noses when it comes to tobacco.

The OTC or “codger” blends are a good recommendation. Captain Black Gold, Carter Hall, et al, usually have a more complex taste than the bulk jar blends, in my opinion.
This is common practice... locally branded virginia slices here (Canada) are just Sutliff 507C for about 4 times the price you can get it online.

It's a rough time to run a tobacco store (has been for a few years). I do buy some occasionally but it feels like a bit of a charity donation haha. I wish we had more in the way of choice up here.
 

Cretodecristo

Lurker
Sep 13, 2022
10
24
I’ve learned to buy only tins from the local B&Ms. And that is only if I have a sense of urgency and extra money to burn. A few unpleasant “merchant’s choice” blend purchases has me wanting to make sure the tobacco was untouched by anyone who doesn’t understand pipes. Then again, all the B&Ms in my area are cigar shops that happen to sell pipe tobacco.