The Root Cause of Tongue Bite

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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,678
29,400
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
So I was smoking some dark twist. It is the only blend I have right now that I can get to bite me. As I was cleaning it I thought if the burning is chemical then there is a chance the gunk on the pipe cleaner would burn. And so I licked the dirty pipe cleaner and it was pretty spice feeling. Tried it with the blends that don't bite me and it was just gross. So not sure if that means anything otherwise then I am a bit odd but it's there and you can do what you want with it.
 

makhorkasmoker

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 17, 2021
564
1,356
Central Florida
Five brothers bites me, which is a shame cause I love it otherwise. By “bite” I mean bite like a big dog bit into my jaw and tongue. It’s a pain deep in the muscle and seemingly even the bone. I also get a little of this whenever I smoke white burley or a blend that relies heavily on white burley. Which makes me think “bite” for me has something to do with uncured or incompletely cured burleys—that is, burleys that haven’t been piled a bit like cigar leaf. Tho I’m far from sure.

my mouth is irritated by red Virginia and to a lesser extent orientals. It’s nothing major but I do limit my smoking of these tobaccos to avoid this irritation. It’s a tingly or numbing sensation

toungue burn was something I used to get from smoking a goopy danish aro too fast and hard.
So, all of these, for me, are separate issues.
 
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PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,376
26,150
Hawaii
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this before, but for me, with VAs, especially reds, or even Latakia, I don’t get tongue bite, the roof of my mouth gets irritated and raw feeeling and will also start to throb.

In fact, any tabac, that might irritate, I never have a problem with my tongue, it’s always the roof of my mouth that I mentioned, that’s sensitive.
 
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Pipenwheels

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 3, 2020
130
975
Ohio
@Pipenwheels has a similar experience. Believes it's his mouth chemistry. Interestingly, Sutliff supplies tobacco to other blenders he loves. I, personally, haven't had much of an issue with tongue bite.
To be clear, however Sutliff processes their leaf gives me tongue bite. @CallMeSangy that is a great resource and is spot on to my experience. Like Mr. Reeves when I smoke a "bitey" blend it hits me from the light and never gets better. I love the taste of the Cringle Flake series but it just doesn't jive with my mouth chemistry. I have it out away and try it from time to time(using all the techniques mentioned in the above mentioned article). The 2021 was better than the 2020 but both are "nippy". I would have quit a long time ago if I didn't have great resources like this forum!!
Also, @Twasson81 I have noticed the lack of bite you experience....next smoke session...out with the Sutliff, no more finely aged blends for you!
 
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Pipenwheels

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 3, 2020
130
975
Ohio
@makhorkasmoker @PipeIT you bring up excellent points. I experience all of these different types of mouth irritation. However, with the upgrading of my pipes ,tobacco, and most importantly refining of my technique I have for the most part eliminated these nuisances
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,376
26,150
Hawaii
@makhorkasmoker @PipeIT you bring up excellent points. I experience all of these different types of mouth irritation. However, with the upgrading of my pipes ,tobacco, and most importantly refining of my technique I have for the most part eliminated these nuisances

It might be more likely that someone would experience the roof of their mouth getting irritated if the stem is pointing upwards, like if you let the pipe dangle from your mouth.

Technique has nothing to do with it for me, I know how to smoke a pipe, the fact is, some blends of tabac are more irritating to the mouth than others, because of their PH balance, along with various toppings, which might also irritate.

Some people know matter what are just sensitive.
 

didimauw

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 28, 2013
9,895
31,635
34
Burlington WI
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this before, but for me, with VAs, especially reds, or even Latakia, I don’t get tongue bite, the roof of my mouth gets irritated and raw feeeling and will also start to throb.

In fact, any tabac, that might irritate, I never have a problem with my tongue, it’s always the roof of my mouth that I mentioned, that’s sensitive.
This is me too. Everything is directed straight to the roof of my mouth. I used to get roof rash from smoking certain blends too fast and hot. Never had tongue bite or burn though.
 
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Twasson81

Lurker
Aug 22, 2022
35
154
To be clear, however Sutliff processes their leaf gives me tongue bite. @CallMeSangy that is a great resource and is spot on to my experience. Like Mr. Reeves when I smoke a "bitey" blend it hits me from the light and never gets better. I love the taste of the Cringle Flake series but it just doesn't jive with my mouth chemistry. I have it out away and try it from time to time(using all the techniques mentioned in the above mentioned article). The 2021 was better than the 2020 but both are "nippy". I would have quit a long time ago if I didn't have great resources like this forum!!
Also, @Twasson81 I have noticed the lack of bite you experience....next smoke session...out with the Sutliff, no more finely aged blends for you!
I'm down.
 

Pipenwheels

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 3, 2020
130
975
Ohio
Blends or manufacturers vary as far as mouth irritation is concerned. I agree @PipeIT as I have perfected my technique as well, that some blends just bite. I also agree that toppings as well as the processing of the leaf are a major contributor for me. I think that the type of pipe also plays a role. I have had to learn what types of pipes compliment my smoking style. It is the engineering of the pipe that has become critical for me. A wide open draw compliments my smoking style and cadence. As long as I have the right pipe and the right tobacco, I can smoke all day. My best advice for those starting out is do not give up. Figure out what works best for you and enjoy!
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,376
26,150
Hawaii
Blends or manufacturers vary as far as mouth irritation is concerned. I agree @PipeIT as I have perfected my technique as well, that some blends just bite. I also agree that toppings as well as the processing of the leaf are a major contributor for me. I think that the type of pipe also plays a role. I have had to learn what types of pipes compliment my smoking style. It is the engineering of the pipe that has become critical for me. A wide open draw compliments my smoking style and cadence. As long as I have the right pipe and the right tobacco, I can smoke all day. My best advice for those starting out is do not give up. Figure out what works best for you and enjoy!

I was talking about those who are sensitive, like having an allergy, that it’s in your genes, body chemistry, so no matter what you do, nothing is going to change it, is all I meant.

I’m simply sensitive and that’s not changing. I can certainly dry the tabac crisp to the bone, and sip extremely slow, and it helps, but then I’d have to make a bowl last the entire day, like taking a sip every 20-30 minutes, which isn’t exactly much smoking either.

But your right blends vary, there are certainly VAs, however they were grown and processed that are less irritating, that a sensitive person might find, they can smoke often. But for me, all the VAs I’ve tried in the past few years, they have irritated the roof of my mouth, probably because they were more robust VA blends. SG Grousemoor doesn’t bother me, this is a very light VA Aro.
 
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Pipenwheels

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 3, 2020
130
975
Ohio
I hear you. I also agree, as I am a sensitive smoker myself. At first, I couldn't smoke any of the Virginias widely available....and still cannot smoke many of them. Cornell & Diehl is the most tolerable as far as available blends go.....I can also tolerate some Kohlhase and Kopp virginias.

I was introduced to aged Mcclelland virginias and can smoke them pretty much all day. I can also smoke Germain produced blends if there is some age on them.

I am always fighting mouth irritation in general but have been able to greatly reduce them through some of the techniques I have stated....BUT that is not to minimize what you are saying. There are blends that I cannot tolerate. However, I have not experienced an allergy to one kind of leaf....though I know it exists.

I wonder if blending your own blends with increasing amounts of the offending leaf would help?

Start with say 5% and increase until it hurts....or maybe 5% would offend.

Would be interested in chatting privately. This whole topic is interesting to me.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
My tongue has never been the primary victim of bite, more like my gums. I experienced it worse with aromatics, so for me, I think it had to do with flavorings burning more than tobacco. When I changed to mostly smoking non-aromatics, there was less bite, sometimes none, and none of the bad aftertastes that I had experienced with aromatics.

I think it is highly individual, having to do with allergies and sensitivities with each person. I can smoke strong non-aromatic blends with little or no bite, and mild, low nicotine aromatics that makes my mouth sting, and sting all over again an hour later when i brush my teeth with peppermint toothpaste.

So far I have no problem with red Virginia blends.
 

justscience

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jul 5, 2013
164
818
Upper Midwestern USA
I can get a sore tongue when using a gourd calabash. Not a technique issue for me, it's the components of the blend. Perique from C&D blends usually does it, as do many of their virginias. I can smoke MacBarens with impunity. If there is a tobacco that gives me a problem yet I still enjoy, a charcoal filter resolves it.
 
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RudyH

Might Stick Around
Sep 1, 2022
53
74
Wisconsin
My take on it is that the root cause of tongue bite is bad smoking technique. Change the moisture level of the tobacco, change the way you pack and light and puff. If all else fails, try a different kind of tobacco. Tweak the fundamentals until you get a perfect smoke consistently.
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,376
26,150
Hawaii
There was an article done on Pipesmagazine, this is by Russ Ouellette;

Tongue Bite is the same as Tongue Burn– Most people who complain of tongue bite aren’t experiencing bite at all; they’ve simply burnt their tongues. Tongue bite is a chemical reaction, usually caused by alkalinity. The sensation is similar to a cramp and is different than “leather tongue” (a sore, heat damaged tongue). The common causes of leather tongue can include improper packing, smoking too fast and tobacco that is either too dry or too moist, among others. True tongue bite doesn’t leave the tongue raw and bumpy as is common following heat damage. Since Burley can produce alkaline smoke, it is commonly targeted as the culprit regarding bite, but other tobaccos can have a higher pH as well.

———————————————————————-

There was an article on a website, but the site is no longer active, but I made a copy of it, this is a good read.

———————————————————————-

What is it?

Tongue bite is generally described as a condition caused by pipe smoking that results in a sore, tender or irritated tongue. It’s not limited to the tongue however, as other oral tissues can be effected. Tongue bite has been the bane of pipe smokers since the Columbus expedition brought this practice back to Europe from the New World. The feeling has been described in various ways: “a burning sensation,” “raw tongue,” “like an acid burn,” and so on. The severity of tongue bite can range anywhere from a minor irritation lasting a few hours to a major discomfort lasting for several days. Needless to say, it’s something every pipe smoker has probably experienced, and are always on guard against.

What causes it?

If you ask ten pipe smokers, “What is the cause of tongue bite,” you’re likely to get ten different answers. I’ve heard everything from bad packing technique to moist tobacco to low quality pipe. All of these answers essentially boil down to one thing, over heating. This over heating can lead to a thermal burn, i.e. the smoke/steam coming into your mouth is too hot, or a chemical burn caused by an imbalance of the smoke pH. The causes of over heating are the same regardless of what’s actually doing the burning, but for the sake of education, lets dive into the two theories

Thermal Burn

The thermal burn theory is pretty easy to wrap your head around. You puff too fast, the smoke and steam from the tobacco becomes too hot and it scalds the inside of your mouth. This would most commonly happen during initial lighting and relighting. Getting a good initial light, or trying to burn every last shred of tobacco in your bowl can cause a pipe smoker to draw too heavily on the pipe, bringing the full heat of the match or lighter directly into their mouth. This over heating can also be caused when the tobacco is packed too tightly or too loosely. A tight pack interferes with the draw on the pipe, which makes it difficult to keep the pipe lit, which in turn causes you to draw too heavily and over heat the pipe. A bowl with tobacco packed too loosely is also difficult to keep lit because there isn’t enough contact between the tobacco pieces to keep it burning evenly down the bowl, often a tamper is used to remedy this, but if it’s tamped too hard, you’re right back to the tight pack scenario.

Chemical Burn

The chemical burn theory boils down to an imbalance in the pH of your particular tobacco smoke. When smoke from tobacco has a higher degree of alkalinity, it will produce a painful irritation of the tongue, regardless of its temperature. A principal cause of alkaline smoke is a tobacco containing little or no sugar, such as Burley. Soil chemistry where the tobacco was grown can also influence the pH of the leaf. Virginias and other tobaccos with a high sugar content generally produce an acidic smoke, which is easier on the mucous membranes and tongue. However, if combustion temperature goes too high, then the hydrocarbons (especially sugars) join with oxygen to form water and turn neutral, thus leaving the alkaline components to predominate in the smoke.

This simply means when this type of tongue bite occurs, it is the result of a chemical reaction, it has nothing to do with heat or the temperature of the smoke. Even if you were to freeze the smoke and make it ice cold, the high alkalinity would still produce a chemical irritation.

Well-known master tobacconist, G. L. Pease, points out these details concerning common tobaccos and their pH and sugar levels:

  • Burley and Virginias have a similar pH of 5.4 to 5.8 (although Virginias have significantly more sugar in the form of dextrose, about 0.2% for Burleys and approximately 22% for bright Virginia).
  • Turkish is somewhat more acidic, generally about pH 4.9, while containing only about 12% sugar.
  • The alkalinity of the water soluble ash from Burley, however, is 2-3 times that of Virginia.
Pease also explains that when sugars are burned at higher temperatures, they tend to produce smoke with a higher pH than when burned more slowly. This can cause Virginias to smoke “hot” when puffed furiously, while gentle smoking will liberate the sugars into the water which is produced during combustion of the tobacco. Maintaining a delicate balance between steam generated by the vaporizing water in the tobacco and the water vapour produced as a byproduct of normal combustion is very important to getting a sweet, cool smoke. If the tobacco is too wet, too much steam is generated, dilluting the “sweetness” of the smoke, and resulting in caloric heat. If the tobacco is too dry, the smoker may tend to smoke it hot, creating an alkaline smoke from the burning of sugars.

Tobaccos that are flue-cured, such as Virginias, or those exposed to a high heat soon after the leaf is removed from the plant, will have a high sugar content. This is because metabolic processes within the leaf, and microorganisms that live there, are killed by the heat before the sugar is consumed.

Sun-cured or air-cured tobaccos, on the other hand, have a low sugar content, because most of the sugar is either metabolized within the leaf itself or consumed by microorganisms between the time the leaf was removed from the plant and the end of the initial curing process.

In light of this, one would expect Virginias and other heat-cured tobaccos to be gentle on the tongue, and Burley and other slowly-cured tobaccos to be harsh on the tongue. But this is not necessarily the case. When the leaf burns in your pipe, the higher the combustion temperature, the more complete the combustion, and the more hydrogen ions combine with oxygen to form neutral water. Put differently, the higher the burn temperature, the more alkaline the smoke, as the acidic hydrogen is used to form neutral water and the alkaline components dominate.

The irony, of course, is that tobaccos rich in sugar tend to burn easily, fast, and hot, while those low in sugar tend to burn slower and cooler. If you smoke a sugar-rich Virginia hot, instead of pleasant acidic smoke, you will experience caustic alkaline smoke that bites with a vengeance. And if you smoke Burley, which is naturally higher alkaline, in a gentle, cool manner, you will be rewarded with an acidic smoke that will comfort your tongue. All of this can be further modified if the blender has applied extra sugar or honey or cased the tobacco with rum, for example. These additives can tilt the balance of the tobacco toward the acidic pH.
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,376
26,150
Hawaii
How to avoid it?

I realize that this is a lot of information to take in, and some find it to be a bit overwhelming. The simple fact is that tongue bite is painful, and all pipe smokers try to avoid it. Here are some simple tips to prevent this annoying little affliction:

  • Practice proper smoking technique. This is absolutely essential. Improper technique can easily lead to some of the most common forms of tongue bite. For this reason it is vital to learn to take slow, gentle sips instead of long, heavy draws. Don’t puff too rapidly, which increases combustion temperature leading to chemical burn. Be careful when lighting or relighting so that you don’t draw the flame/heat directly into your mouth. Learn to properly fill your bowl: Packing too tight will cause a difficult draw making you inhale too heavily. Packing too loosely will allow excessive airflow, which may cause the tobacco to burn hot. Learn when and how to tamp to keep your pipe lit without excessive or forceful puffing. I realize these suggestions don’t actually tell you “how” to do these things; that information is for another article. But take the time to learn and exercise diligence. You will be greatly rewarded for your effort and patience.
  • Avoid tobaccos with high alkalinity. Smoke tobaccos rich in sugar. (See the general information above for ideas about which tobaccos contain more natural sugar and those with less alkalinity.) If you enjoy high alkaline tobaccos, try blending them with others to reduce the chemical burn issues. Also, if a particular tobacco irritates your tongue more than others, don’t smoke it! With the rich variety of tobaccos available, there’s no reason to smoke something that doesn’t sit well with you.
  • Pay attention to the moisture content of your tobacco. If too dry, it is very easy to drive the combustion temperature too high. But if the tobacco is too moist, you will automatically compensate for the difficulty in making moist tobacco burn by puffing more strongly, and this too can easily drive the temperature of combustion too high, and result in very alkaline smoke.
  • Don’t worry about your pipe going out. Some consider it a noble thing to smoke a pipe from start to finish on one or two lights, but that is an unnecessary encumberance. There is absolutely no shame in relighting. If your pipe starts to go out, let it, and then relight. Nothing promotes a hot, alkaline smoke faster than trying to “rekindle” an ember which is in its death throes. As G. L. Pease said, “Cast thy pride to the winds, and call upon Promethius whenever needed to enflame thy sweet smoke yet again!”
  • Don’t insist on smoking your pipe all the way to the bottom of the bowl. Relighting at the bottom can cause a scald by drawing the heat from the flame directly into the mouth. Discarding a small amount of unburned tobacco may seem like a crime, but frying your tongue so you can’t enjoy smoking at all is much worse.
  • Enjoy a cool or room temperature beverage with your pipe.
  • Avoid eating or drinking items that tend to exacerbate tongue bite. The specific list of items will vary from person to person due to individual tolerances, unique body chemistry, allergies, etc. But many report problems from salty foods and carbonated beverages. Also avoid ice cold drinks since the contrast in temperatures can make the tongue more sensitive to irritation.
  • After smoking, drink a glass of milk. Some suggest this helps to soothe an irritated tongue.
  • Use a product such as Biotene mouthwash or Aloe Vera juice to regularly rinse your mouth (not necessarily during the smoke, but as a regular routine of oral hygiene). Many report that these products are highly effective in preventing and treating tongue bite.

In Summary

There is probably more that could be said about this condition, and as more information comes to light, we may better equip ourselves against it. Tongue bite is indeed a menace to pipe smoking society, but it’s all a part of the learning process and everyone goes through it. Pipe smoking is an incredibly worth while pass time practiced by some of the most distinguished men and women of western civilization, and I guarantee every one of them experience tongue bite as well. I hope you continue on in your tobacco journey, and never cease to explore the pleasures of this gentle art.
 

CallMeSangy

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 12, 2022
131
362
Central Virginia
At least now I feel more confident in my reaction to burley. I used to feel like the one man clown show, but this is good. Burley, as was noted above, personally irritates my mouth similar to an allergic reaction. I have a tree nut allergy, so I know this feeling all too well. Lit up some Macbaren Burley flake a 2 months ago and havn't gone back.

Russ is also welcomely enlightening. His Videos with the fokker circus pipe news are always an eye opener for a newcomer like myself.
 
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