Any Ideas Why Europe Out-Produces U.S. In Factory Pipes?

[mso489]

The U.S. factory pipe industry has really withered in the last 20 years. Edwards is mostly gone. Frank is a shadow of its former self. Kaywoodie is said to be basically a one-man operation. Dr. Grabow is probably the largest briar pipe maker by volume in the U.S. with the largest work force up there in Sparta, N.C., near the Virginia line, but it isn't large.

Europe still has Peterson (although the ownership is now in the U.S.), Savinelli, White Spot, Nording, Ashton, and a number of French briar pipe makers still dominant, and Europe is getting a lot of contracts from around the world to produce pipes formerly made in other countries, like Canada's Brigham.

Most of these countries have high taxes and labor costs that are comparable to the U.S., but manage to produce pipes in higher numbers. Do they have more pipe smokers per capita? Does the acceptance of 9 mm filters increase the number of people who feel more comfortable with smoking?

The U.S. still has Missouri Meerschaum, which is probably the largest U.S. pipe maker by volume, but in briar pipes, the U.S. doesn't keep up. I think the U.S. may be comparable to Europe in artisan pipes, but that is a small share of a small market. Any ideas why?

 

[AroEnglish]

Don't forget BriarWorks!

But yeah, you're right that the US doesn't produce as much as Europe when it comes to briars. I'm curious to hear different people's thoughts.

 

[mingc]

Perhaps it's because the US is disadvantaged by its distance from the source of raw material needed to make pipes, i.e., briar.

 

[mso489]

During World War Two, Dr. Grabow relocated to Sparta, N.C., precisely because the substitute for briar when it was not available from war torn areas was Mountain Laurel that was available in the mountains of North Carolina, so the briar supply is indeed an issue.

Jerry Perry of Colfax, N.C., still carves some pipes out of Mountain Laurel. He also carves in briar and a few other woods.

 

[sablebrush52]

That's a really good question, and my best guess would be that it's simply a continuation of what's been going on for over a century. The US has been a major market for European makers for many decades and those pipes, Dunhill, Comoy, Sasieni, BBB, GBD, and to a lesser extent, Barling, were perceived, rightly or wrongly, as being superior in quality to the domestic product. KBB, Demuth, Bertram, Linkman, etc just lacked the cachet. At least one British maker set up an operation in the US to feed the demand, and Kaywoodie opened a branch in the UK to do the same.
Americans have long held foreign made "luxury" products in much higher esteem. American brands were seen as reliable, well made, but strictly mid level. We didn't do art, we did tractors.
Add to that the cultural mystique, men with their tavern pipes and ale at the pub, richer with more character than the neighborhood bar. Many pipe smokers are history buffs and there's a lot more history overseas than here. Not really, but that which often figures into the imagination of pipe smokers.

 

[warren]

Yup, demand. Simple as that.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Pipe making originated there. They're closer to the briar sources. Who in their right mind would attempt to open a pipe manufacturing facility at this point? And when you look at the companies in Europe who make factory pipes, most of them are pretty good at it. It's not like the market is begging for another player.

 

[grimpuffer]

I agree with all the above comments so cannot really add to them, but....

I will say I think you get a better custom product for a better price in the US and Canada than you can from the EU. YMMV

 

[Zamora]

I've always been under the impression Europe has a higher rate of pipe smokers, hence more factories, though I haven't seen any stats on that beyond something like a quarter of Swedish smokers using pipes. From what I've gathered no US factory pipe brand ever approached the quality of say Peterson or Savinelli, other than maybe more niche ones like Custom Bilt. Kaywoodie was apparently the fanciest of the American factory pipes back in the day. I wanted my first briar to be a Dr. Grabow, but I've seen so many people say their quality has gone downhill in recent years so I figured I'd go the estate route and get something cheaper.

 

[ADKPiper]

Every place outproduces America in everything.
We don't make anything any more.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Most of the previous posts cover it all. I would add in simple terms that the American companies left that are producing factory pipes are making entry- and mid-level pipes and the European companies are producing a wider range of pipes that cover more price points to Europe, America, and beyond—their production is bound to out-produce U.S. factory pipes.

 

[mso489]

It may have some bearing that most of the marketing and advertising efforts for tobacco pipes in general in the U.S., where ever the pipes are made, is directed at current pipe smokers. Very little is said to people who don't smoke pipes.

There are few if any ads that promote pipe smoking, and there is little product placement that would put pipe smoking in front of the public in an appealing way.

The just-released movie "Paint" with Owen Wilson depicts a television art teacher, a painter, who does smoke a pipe, but the character doesn't seem like a role model or influencer, though I haven't seen the film yet.

I'm sure they exist, but I haven't seen any popular musicians in any genre that smoke trademark pipes. That could be done by women performers for a distinct spin too. No writers of note, nor visual artists, nor actors, though some may smoke pipes in private.

There are numerous youTube and other social media pipe smokers who give instruction, advice, and reviews, who are available to non-pipe-smokers, but they are mostly viewed by and aimed at pipe smokers, beginners or otherwise.

So it is partly that pipe smokers are accepting of their outsider role, and most of us may prefer it that way. But the lack of outreach may dampen a wider interest in pipe smoking.

Kevin, with Forums, is certainly doing his part. A vote for Pipes Magazine Dot Com. which serves as outreach for the pipe making and pipe tobacco blending community as well, with an open door policy here.

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Europeans generally speaking respect tradition and traditional businesses more than we do here in the USA. This is my impression based on 30+ years bouncing back and forth between the USA and Europe . They will hang onto businesses that Americans drop because they don’t seem profitable enough or “advanced “ enough, and i for one love them for it

 

[mso489]

Good point. Europeans are much more rigorous in maintaining historical activities whether it is a monarchy, traditional wine making, cheese making, or maintaining historical buildings which are often under almost continual reconstruction. The efforts themselves advertise the tradition and keep it going. Whereas in the U.S., change is glorified -- bring on the vaping, etc.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

US pipe companies went into it with a Henry Ford ideal in mind. Cheap pipes for the working man.
Whereas in Europe, they tended to have some luxury in mind... except for a few companies.

I don't like the Henry Ford model of doing business. I say, keep it exclusive. If everyone can have one, I don't want it.

 

[bullet08]

Lack of quality skilled work force willing to take the low wage for the work. And it's not really competitive market where mass production could corner it. If it was, Red China would have jumped all over it.

 

[mso489]

I think China has eased into the artisan making of pipes, with some really cheap and shoddy factory pipes on the side. Mostly, they prefer much higher volume products like electronics, automobiles, and kitchen ware.

China delivers incredible stainless steel cookware at about 10% of the cost of comparable goods made in the U.S. or Europe. I think their steel industry was or is subsidized, but we all have their cookware in the kitchen.

As a footnote, China used to be in a panic about overpopulation, with their one-child limit and intrusive laws. Now they've gone in the other direction, experiencing a steep drop in the birthrate. They can't pay people to have extra kids, and the one child policy caused an extreme surplus of young men who can't find wives. Everyone wanted a son.

Developed countries tend to have this problem, not just the same, but similar.

 

[anotherbob]

Yup, demand. Simple as that.

I agree. Just not enough pipe smokers to feed all the makers. And Per capita Europeans smoke more pipes by a big amount.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I think that if I wanted to make money, there are two areas that I would avoid like the plague; restaurants and pipemaking.

 

[Zamora]

Most of the previous posts cover it all. I would add in simple terms that the American companies left that are producing factory pipes are making entry- and mid-level pipes and the European companies are producing a wider range of pipes that cover more price points to Europe, America, and beyond—their production is bound to out-produce U.S. factory pipes.

I think you nailed it. The European factories make pipes for everybody from beginners to hardcore collectors. Contrast that with Dr. Grabow who pretty much only make pipes for beginners and codgers. MM I would say does cater to a wide spectrum of customers but even their most expensive pipes would be cheap for a briar and they don't have any competition since they have a monopoly on cobs.

It may have some bearing that most of the marketing and advertising efforts for tobacco pipes in general in the U.S., where ever the pipes are made, is directed at current pipe smokers. Very little is said to people who don't smoke pipes.

There are few if any ads that promote pipe smoking, and there is little product placement that would put pipe smoking in front of the public in an appealing way.

The just-released movie "Paint" with Owen Wilson depicts a television art teacher, a painter, who does smoke a pipe, but the character doesn't seem like a role model or influencer, though I haven't seen the film yet.

I'm sure they exist, but I haven't seen any popular musicians in any genre that smoke trademark pipes. That could be done by women performers for a distinct spin too. No writers of note, nor visual artists, nor actors, though some may smoke pipes in private.

There are numerous youTube and other social media pipe smokers who give instruction, advice, and reviews, who are available to non-pipe-smokers, but they are mostly viewed by and aimed at pipe smokers, beginners or otherwise.

So it is partly that pipe smokers are accepting of their outsider role, and most of us may prefer it that way. But the lack of outreach may dampen a wider interest in pipe smoking.

Kevin, with Forums, is certainly doing his part. A vote for Pipes Magazine Dot Com. which serves as outreach for the pipe making and pipe tobacco blending community as well, with an open door policy here.

Yeah so many people assume pipe smoking died out in the 70s, they have no idea the past twenty years have seen something of a slow burn Renaissance. Nowadays most famous pipe smokers are only famous for smoking pipes. There's some YTPC people with crossover into other stuff like George Bruno but he's an outlier. There's actually one YouTuber I watch who smokes a pipe but his videos have nothing to do with that, he lives in Sweden. The problem with there being so few pipe smokers and even fewer open ones is it makes it much easier to target pipe tobacco with nanny state legislation. My state doesn't allow online pipe tobacco sales and the taxes for it are through the roof, yet online cigar sales are totally legal and the tax is capped at 65 cents a stick. My B&M guy says it's because cigars are still popular and open so targeting them would create opposition, with pipe tobacco opposition is minimal.

Europeans generally speaking respect tradition and traditional businesses more than we do here in the USA. This is my impression based on 30+ years bouncing back and forth between the USA and Europe . They will hang onto businesses that Americans drop because they don’t seem profitable enough or “advanced “ enough, and i for one love them for it

That's absolutely another factor of it. I've also noticed that European factory brands are very proud of their heritage, which informs their entire aesthetic. MM is the only American factory brand that really embraces being American, and that's largely because cobs are a distinctly American contribution to pipe smoking and exclusively American for most of its history.

I think China has eased into the artisan making of pipes, with some really cheap and shoddy factory pipes on the side. Mostly, they prefer much higher volume products like electronics, automobiles, and kitchen ware.

China delivers incredible stainless steel cookware at about 10% of the cost of comparable goods made in the U.S. or Europe. I think their steel industry was or is subsidized, but we all have their cookware in the kitchen.

As a footnote, China used to be in a panic about overpopulation, with their one-child limit and intrusive laws. Now they've gone in the other direction, experiencing a steep drop in the birthrate. They can't pay people to have extra kids, and the one child policy caused an extreme surplus of young men who can't find wives. Everyone wanted a son.

Developed countries tend to have this problem, not just the same, but similar.

Yeah there's some Chinese carvers making absolutely stunning pipes. Most of them are trained in Denmark or at least in the Danish lineage. I see a lot of people say "avoid pipes from China", but really the advice should be "avoid brands like Muxiang and Joyoldelf that you only see on Amazon."