Collectible Pipes Replaced Stems

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Dec 3, 2021
4,967
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And if Rainer Barbi made a replacement stem for one of his own pipes how would you know?

This gets into interesting territory. With book collecting, reputable dealers will note when a book has a “supplied” dust jacket, meaning the original jacket for the book was not present and one from another book was married to the book in question; this jacket could very well be correct in every detail and perhaps even be from the same print run, but is something that should be noted in the description of the book. Sometimes there will be wear to the binding of the book that does not have corresponding wear on the supplied jacket, which can give a clue that the jacket is not original to that particular book. Years ago, I bought a Ross Macdonald book from a dealer. When I received it, I noticed that the dust jacket didn’t have dampstaining (water damage) like the book’s binding did. I contacted the seller immediately and asked if he had the jacket with the damage—the book was inscribed to a friend of the author, and I wanted the jacket that belonged to that copy and person. I suspect the dealer thought he was doing me a favour by putting the better jacket on the book, but I wanted the one that belonged to the recipient and was much happier when I was able to put the lesser condition jacket on the book it belonged on.

When it comes to books signed by authors I collect, I prefer period correct signatures contemporary to the books whenever possible. Because I’m familiar with the handwriting of the writers whose work I collect seriously, I usually have a relatively good idea about what period the signature is from, but that’s probably unusual. With pipes, you really have to rely on the seller being honest and forthcoming with the pipe’s history.

With regard to a replacement stem for a pipe missing its original one, I guess it’s better to have one replaced by the artisan who made the pipe rather than some third party version, although it seems possible that a George Dibos might make a better stem. I guess it all matters if your priority is functionality over history or lineage.
 
Jun 9, 2015
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This gets into interesting territory. With book collecting, reputable dealers will note when a book has a “supplied” dust jacket, meaning the original jacket for the book was not present and one from another book was married to the book in question; this jacket could very well be correct in every detail and perhaps even be from the same print run, but is something that should be noted in the description of the book. Sometimes there will be wear to the binding of the book that does not have corresponding wear on the supplied jacket, which can give a clue that the jacket is not original to that particular book. Years ago, I bought a Ross Macdonald book from a dealer. When I received it, I noticed that the dust jacket didn’t have dampstaining (water damage) like the book’s binding did. I contacted the seller immediately and asked if he had the jacket with the damage—the book was inscribed to a friend of the author, and I wanted the jacket that belonged to that copy and person. I suspect the dealer thought he was doing me a favour by putting the better jacket on the book, but I wanted the one that belonged to the recipient and was much happier when I was able to put the lesser condition jacket on the book it belonged on.

When it comes to books signed by authors I collect, I prefer period correct signatures contemporary to the books whenever possible. Because I’m familiar with the handwriting of the writers whose work I collect seriously, I usually have a relatively good idea about what period the signature is from, but that’s probably unusual. With pipes, you really have to rely on the seller being honest and forthcoming with the pipe’s history.

With regard to a replacement stem for a pipe missing its original one, I guess it’s better to have one replaced by the artisan who made the pipe rather than some third party version, although it seems possible that a George Dibos might make a better stem. I guess it all matters if your priority is functionality over history or lineage.
While I agree with the sentiment, that’s like comparing apples to books.

A pipe with a missing or broken stem has ceased to be a pipe, it has no useful value. If it is to go on being a pipe it has to have the stem replaced.

A Collectible book that’s missing its dust jacket does not cease to be a book, it just becomes a less valuable book. It can still be read, the information within is still intact. It’s still a book. There is no need to replace the missing dust jacket other than to add monetary value.
 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
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Replacements often don't perform as well as the original.
Well, that depends. I have a George Dibos stem on an Ashton, the material and craftsmanship is far superior. Even a shop like Ashton could not devote the time George can to craft a great stem.

I would not even consider an estate pipe with a known replacement stem. (well, unless I know someone like George made it). Even so, it would have diminished value to me.
 
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mikethompson

Lifer
Jun 26, 2016
11,359
23,555
Near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I think it may depend on the age of the pipe. If the pipe is 100 years old, it might be a lot to expect an original stem.

But the car analogy is accurate to a point. An all original classic car is going to be worth more than a classic car with an older restoration I think.
 
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Dec 3, 2021
4,967
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While I agree with the sentiment, that’s like comparing apples to books.

A pipe with a missing or broken stem has ceased to be a pipe, it has no useful value. If it is to go on being a pipe it has to have the stem replaced.

A Collectible book that’s missing its dust jacket does not cease to be a book, it just becomes a less valuable book. It can still be read, the information within is still intact. It’s still a book. There is no need to replace the missing dust jacket other than to add monetary value.

I agree with much of what you posit, but a more salient point I was trying to get across is that it’s important for a seller to be up front about things being original or replaced; I also covered this in regard to priorities, i.e., functionality versus historical/lineage factors. I would disagree with the sole reason for wanting a dust jacket being monetary, though—for me, if it was issued with a dust jacket and doesn’t have one, it is incomplete in terms of the things that I value outside of basic functionality (reading).
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,839
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Southern Oregon
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I would respectfully disagree. Many collectors can identify replacements. Logo is a dead give away for one. Some logos are very difficult to reproduce, Barbi comes to mind..
So can I when it’s a make that I know well. However, the top British makers, such as Dunhill, Barling, Charatan, Sasieni, etal, had their own repair departments where they fashioned replacement stems for their clientele. That 1920’s Dunhill magnum may have a factory made replacement stem. Not an uncommon occurrence.
And then there’s the reality that many restorers had stamps they used to replicate a worn logo stamp. Is the stem still original if it’s been botoxed? Part of valuation is condition.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,839
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Southern Oregon
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I agree with much of what you posit, but a more salient point I was trying to get across is that it’s important for a seller to be up front about things being original or replaced; I also covered this in regard to priorities, i.e., functionality versus historical/lineage factors. I would disagree with the sole reason for wanting a dust jacket being monetary, though—for me, if it was issued with a dust jacket and doesn’t have one, it is incomplete in terms of the things that I value outside of basic functionality (reading).
I agree, but it can be much less obvious in the case of a replacement stem if the replacement was done skillfully.
 

dPero

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 15, 2022
966
11,190
39
Stafilic
I have Charatan with replacment stem, payed less than odher with the Charatan stem and the pipe smokes great, at the end that is most important to me.
 

Briarcutter

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 17, 2023
202
1,107
U.S.A.
I'm not going to split hairs on the word "original". Once you smoke a pipe, it's not original, right??? Never left the factory with a tobacco stains in the chamber. To me, if the craftsman that made the pipe, made the mouthpiece, it's all good. It does not matter if it's the first or the fifth mouthpiece for the pipe. My opinion is if the pipe and stem are made my the same person, or factory that created it in the beginning it is " original". I would not have a problem with purchasing a estate pipe with an original craftsman replacement.
 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
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I'm not going to split hairs on the word "original". Once you smoke a pipe, it's not original, right???
I would say MOST unsmoked pipes would likely be original. (NOS would be unsmoked and original, likely)
I think a smoked pipe or used car/motorcycle can still be labeled "original"
 

WerewolfOfLondon

Can't Leave
Jun 8, 2023
469
1,575
London
I thought that when making a pipe the stem and the shank are turned together, with both being sanded at the same time to make the thing entirely symmetrical and cylindrical. Perfect so to speak. Given that you can't do this with a replacement stem (as it would remove stains/stamps), how can a replacement stem ever be as good?
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,839
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Southern Oregon
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I thought that when making a pipe the stem and the shank are turned together, with both being sanded at the same time to make the thing entirely symmetrical and cylindrical. Perfect so to speak. Given that you can't do this with a replacement stem (as it would remove stains/stamps), how can a replacement stem ever be as good?
You’re correct regarding the original stem. But a truly skilled restorer, like George Dibos or RonnieB, when he was still practicing, could replicate that level of precision noninvasively.
 

briarblues

Can't Leave
Aug 3, 2017
401
648
What is the goal? Retaining the value as a "collectable" pipe or it's smoking qualities?

IMHO it boils down to what is the important aspect of your pipe "collection". Original condition with value retention or how well the pipe will perform.

Does the replacement stem alter how well a "collectable" pipe will smoke? With the current quality of stem materials and incredibly talented carvers / repair technicians I suspect a "modern" made stem will be of higher quality. Yes, a replacement on a "collectable" pipe reduces it's "value", but only to those with a "collector" mentality.

The key component on any pipe is the briar, not the stem, as far as smoking quality. A patent era Dunhill with a well made replacement stem will smoke the same as a patent era Dunhill with an original stem.
 

Sigmund

Lifer
Sep 17, 2023
1,585
13,758
France
The main thing for me would be that the person who made the replacement knew and cared about what they were doing. You cant tell that from an ebay photo.
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,839
45,561
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
What is the goal? Retaining the value as a "collectable" pipe or it's smoking qualities?

IMHO it boils down to what is the important aspect of your pipe "collection". Original condition with value retention or how well the pipe will perform.

Does the replacement stem alter how well a "collectable" pipe will smoke? With the current quality of stem materials and incredibly talented carvers / repair technicians I suspect a "modern" made stem will be of higher quality. Yes, a replacement on a "collectable" pipe reduces it's "value", but only to those with a "collector" mentality.

The key component on any pipe is the briar, not the stem, as far as smoking quality. A patent era Dunhill with a well made replacement stem will smoke the same as a patent era Dunhill with an original stem.
I agree with you. But you’re being logical and realistic, which is different from the “collector mentality”. My concession between the two is that a replacement stem be faithful to the look of the original, and be period correct in shape. That’s why only the best of the best touch my pipes.
And as far as I’m concerned the pipe is more valuable because both its form and function are restored.
All that said, the “rules” of collectibility follow a different metric.
 

condorlover1

Lifer
Dec 22, 2013
8,119
27,860
New York
I replace a lot of the amber/amberite/amberine stems on my meerschaum 'cutty' pipes due to fragility issues, age and wear and tear. More often it also makes sense since I intend to smoke the pipe and not look at it. The only issue I have is repairers who give me slotted mouth bits which are totally wrong for a 130+ year old pipe. Outside of that issue I just feel it's more a matter of repurposing a pipe for everyday use. When you get so wrapped up in keeping things 'original' you wind up rewiring your vintage motorcycle to run on 12v lights when it left the factory with 6v lighting and are then told by an expert that the wiring is 'non standard' and as such is not concours! The only response to that statements is 'You are indeed correct but I am trying to avoid a horrible 1930s style motorcycle accident caused by not seeing something in the dark!'.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,839
45,561
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I replace a lot of the amber/amberite/amberine stems on my meerschaum 'cutty' pipes due to fragility issues, age and wear and tear. More often it also makes sense since I intend to smoke the pipe and not look at it. The only issue I have is repairers who give me slotted mouth bits which are totally wrong for a 130+ year old pipe. Outside of that issue I just feel it's more a matter of repurposing a pipe for everyday use. When you get so wrapped up in keeping things 'original' you wind up rewiring your vintage motorcycle to run on 12v lights when it left the factory with 6v lighting and are then told by an expert that the wiring is 'non standard' and as such is not concours! The only response to that statements is 'You are indeed correct but I am trying to avoid a horrible 1930s style motorcycle accident caused by not seeing something in the dark!'.
Since you’re replacing the stem, why not request an orific bit? A competent repair person can easily accommodate that.
 

WerewolfOfLondon

Can't Leave
Jun 8, 2023
469
1,575
London
You’re correct regarding the original stem. But a truly skilled restorer, like George Dibos or RonnieB, when he was still practicing, could replicate that level of precision noninvasively.
That's good to know, as I have a pipe that may need new stem. It's a wonderful smoker, but the pipe cleaner doesn't even make it past the stem into the shank. Going to try drilling it myself, but if I make a pig's ear of it (highly likely), I will be contacting our resident carvers.