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warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,772
16,457
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
I'm reading Moby Dick for . . . the fifth time maybe. I remember thoroughly enjoying it the first time read it in the eighth or maybe ninth grade. It was a fascinating tale for required reading. Then my teacher ruined it for me for years. She insisted on dissecting it and finding all sorts of nonsensical meanings in the words. I wonder what it is about great, enjoyable yarns that drives teachers and critics to destroy an author's work and take the joy from it?

Just an idle thought.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
4,020
11,225
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
I'm reading Moby Dick for . . . the fifth time maybe. I remember thoroughly enjoying it the first time read it in the eighth or maybe ninth grade. It was a fascinating tale for required reading. Then my teacher ruined it for me for years. She insisted on dissecting it and finding all sorts of nonsensical meanings in the words. I wonder what it is about great, enjoyable yarns that drives teachers and critics to destroy an author's work and take the joy from it?

Just an idle thought.
I never got past the names of the parts of the ship part. I've not read War and Peace either, though I have finish all three volumes of The Three Body Problem.
 
Jul 26, 2021
2,246
9,140
Metro-Detroit
Sometimes I enjoy analyzing books. Other times, not so much.

Sometimes I reread a book that was enjoyable but get disappointed the second or third time around. I believe this may is a result of where I am in life.

Some books hit harder at different times while others are timeless. Think of All Quiet on the Western Front and it being a time of war, then revisiting the book later and it just doesn't hit the same.

It's similar to music, where a song may take me back to a certain point in my life, and while not presently a great song, brings back memories (both good and bad).

Sometimes it's good to remember where you've been to help focus on where you are going.

Silly example: Party in the USA by Milie Cyrus. I usually hate pop music, but she played on The Morning Show (which my father enjoyed). We watched it together just before he passed. The song, that damn song ...
 

shanez

Lifer
Jul 10, 2018
5,215
24,256
49
Las Vegas
Yeeeeeeesssssss!!!!!!!

You are preaching to the choir here!

Since college, if not, high school, I have been saying:

How do you read a book? You sit down, open it to the first page, and start reading!

If I analyze or think about a book, it is for myself. Anything else is nothing more than someone else's opinion.

That being said, I do enjoy discussing books I've fully read with others who have done the same. It's intellectually stimulating and I might gain a fresh perspective or see something I missed. But not always. Still fun to discuss though.
 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,390
70,091
61
Vegas Baby!!!
Not the same, but similar. I took a music appreciation class in college. I loved punk rock and thought it would help me appreciate music.

Boy was I wrong. The pretentious douche canoe of a fraud teacher did nothing but pontificate and shit on everything we listened too.

One day he asked me my preferred music. I told him punk rock. He starting lecturing me about the evils of punk rock.

It wasn’t too far into his sermon that I walked out of class, withdrew and never looked back.

That worthless mouth breather even managed to shit on Pachelbel’s Canon.

I had books ruined by pretentious assholes too.

Never understood the need.

Mind you, I’m not a cob enthusiast, and if you read my criticisms they are clearly in jest. Jesting is different. Unless you’re an inbreeder, then I apologize.
 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,561
110,014
Not the same, but similar. I took a music appreciation class in college. I loved punk rock and thought it would help me appreciate music.

Boy was I wrong. The pretentious douche canoe of a fraud teacher did nothing but pontificate and shit on everything we listened too.

One day he asked me my preferred music. I told him punk rock. He starting lecturing me about the evils of punk rock.

It wasn’t too far into his sermon that I walked out of class, withdrew and never looked back.

That worthless mouth breather even managed to shit on Pachelbel’s Canon.

I had books ruined by pretentious assholes too.

Never understood the need.

Mind you, I’m not a cob enthusiast, and if you read my criticisms they are clearly in jest. Jesting is different. Unless you’re an inbreeder, then I apologize.
I had a high school music teacher ask me what my favorite piece of classical music was. I told him Mozart's "Leck mich im Arsch". He never called on me again.
 
Dec 3, 2021
5,009
42,483
Pennsylvania & New York
I'm reading Moby Dick for . . . the fifth time maybe. I remember thoroughly enjoying it the first time read it in the eighth or maybe ninth grade. It was a fascinating tale for required reading. Then my teacher ruined it for me for years. She insisted on dissecting it and finding all sorts of nonsensical meanings in the words. I wonder what it is about great, enjoyable yarns that drives teachers and critics to destroy an author's work and take the joy from it?

Just an idle thought.
I don’t think dissecting a book or finding various meanings in it necessarily destroys it—it’s a testament to the book being able to have several levels or meaning if a reader chooses to find them. There are different ways to enjoy a good yarn, whether it be the story itself, the characters, or even hidden meanings that may or may not be there.
 
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Franco Pipenbeans

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 7, 2021
648
1,693
Yorkshire, England
I'm reading Moby Dick for . . . the fifth time maybe. I remember thoroughly enjoying it the first time read it in the eighth or maybe ninth grade. It was a fascinating tale for required reading. Then my teacher ruined it for me for years. She insisted on dissecting it and finding all sorts of nonsensical meanings in the words. I wonder what it is about great, enjoyable yarns that drives teachers and critics to destroy an author's work and take the joy from it?

Just an idle thought.
Try doing an English Literature degree where you agonise for hours about the intended meaning of a word or the unintended meaning of a phrase until any enjoyment is dissected out of the reading.
Imagine repurposing these dissection skills from literature to film and you can never watch a film for fun again.

I had one lecturer who was adamant that Shakespeare’s genius lay in his agonising over the choice of every single word he wrote.
When it was pointed out to said lecturer that Shakespeare was churning out hit plays, at a frankly astonishing pace, and that on any legal document, that it is known Shakespeare himself must have signed, that have survived - will, mortgage, loan, theatre stuff etc - he never signed his name the same way twice. Every possible variation of “Shakespeare” imaginable was deployed - Shakeshaft, Brakespere etc - he didn’t have time to ‘agonise’ over words because he was too busy writing!

Said lecturer didn’t like it when it was pointed out that Shakespeare’s genius lay in his ability to say: ‘That’ll do: what’s next? Ah yes, I think I’ll write a play set in an Italian town I have never been too…they’ll probably say how true to Italian life of the period my writing is.’ ✍️

Sorry @warren; I went off on a bit of a rant, lamenting lost years trying to dissect the psychoanalytical content of Dracula or a Marxist reading of A Tale of Two Cities - both wonderful books now wonderfully ruined…and don’t get me started on William Blake! ?
 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,561
110,014
I find it amusing how someone will try to explain what was going through a painter's mind from each brush stroke. For myself and other artists I know, we've always just drawn or painted something interesting we though of or saw or an image we were commissioned to do. No ulterior motive, just capturing a hard copy of an image.
 

Franco Pipenbeans

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 7, 2021
648
1,693
Yorkshire, England
I find it amusing how someone will try to explain what was going through a painter's mind from each brush stroke. For myself and other artists I know, we've always just drawn or painted something interesting we though of or saw or an image we were commissioned to do. No ulterior motive, just capturing a hard copy of an image.
This thread reminds me of Dylan’s incredulity when he found out people were reading meanings in Mr Tambourine Man that he never wrote. When he told anyone who’d listen that that wasn’t what he meant, he’d just been awake for a really long time, with the aid of pharmaceutical enhancement, and those images and words dropped out of his mind and down onto the page, almost by accident, the literazis couldn’t handle it; there simply had to be some meaning, some purpose to it al?!?!

Well no, just words that make images, uncoordinated thoughts and visions, complete chance really. ?‍♂️

Well, they ignored Bobby, told him he was wrong and created a cottage industry around his work.

It’s crackers really.
 
Ha ha! Some really deep thinkers on this forum.

But, Moby Dick… I could care less about what all of the parts of a boat are, and 90% of the book is trying to teach is the craft of whaling. And, I never understood why any of that was important. The book could have been just as good if he left all of that out, and just made it about 100 pages long to tell the actual story.

But, you can enjoy a book, painting, piece of music without understanding what a master artist is trying to convey… just like you can understand that 2+2=4. But, that doesn’t mean you understand math, and how you can use numbers to measure more complex things like how to get to the moon. Your teachers were trying to convey how you can find deeper meanings in art. Except the music teachers. They are all dickheads. puffy
 
May 9, 2021
1,679
3,593
55
Geoje Island South Korea
Not the same, but similar. I took a music appreciation class in college. I loved punk rock and thought it would help me appreciate music.

Boy was I wrong. The pretentious douche canoe of a fraud teacher did nothing but pontificate and shit on everything we listened too.

One day he asked me my preferred music. I told him punk rock. He starting lecturing me about the evils of punk rock.

It wasn’t too far into his sermon that I walked out of class, withdrew and never looked back.

That worthless mouth breather even managed to shit on Pachelbel’s Canon.

I had books ruined by pretentious assholes too.

Never understood the need.

Mind you, I’m not a cob enthusiast, and if you read my criticisms they are clearly in jest. Jesting is different. Unless you’re an inbreeder, then I apologize.
They're pushing their opinions & attitudes onto you/others. Their way or the highway. Assholes the lot of 'em. Unfortunately, the world seems full of these mouth-breathers these days.