Help Dating Pre-Trans Barling
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1940 would be the earliest because of the EL stamp. With no stamping on the stem, it's not possible to tighten the range. But some later Barlings show a more pronounced arch to the word "Barling's". That said the Barling's Make stamp on this pipe was used throughout the period. In the early 1940's and late '30's there was a slightly simpler (in terms of the lettering style) Barling's Make stamp. As I make my living from doing design as well as painting for film and animation I tend to notice those very slight variations.
Now the pipe pictured is interesting. I'd place it in the early 1940's for two reasons. First because of the "Made In London" over "England" stamp which I've only ever seen that stamp on pipes from the late "30's through the early '40's, second because it has a model number. Later pipes, when they have any kind of country stamp have the familiar "Made In England" stamp with or without the period.
If you're curious about what the 1930's "small" stamp looks like, check out the images of the early sandblast pipe on the Pipedia page. That stamp appears to have been used at least through 1940.
Like everything Barling, ranges are approximate.
If you're curious about what the 1930's "small" stamp looks like, check out the images of the early sandblast pipe on the Pipedia page. That stamp appears to have been used at least through 1940.
Like everything Barling, ranges are approximate.
The other interesting thing about this pipe 1245, is it is marked Made in London over England. This is a different pipe than the one elvisc posted in the OP (not trying to hijack the thread, just thought this would be a good place to post the pictures), and has no size marking. Also, no discernable traces of a Reg'd mark on the underside of the stem. The 1245 was why I asked earlier about the four digit marks. Based on my reading, broadly dates from 1935-50?
Broadly 1939 thru 104?. I haven't seen late 40's and later pipes with the MADE IN LONDON over ENGLAND stamp. But it's hard to be exact without hallmarked examples for comparison. Hell, it's hard to be exact at all. The presence of a patent stamp helps place the era as being between 1936 and 1950. The absence of a patent stamp doesn't really indicate anything. A "reg'd design" stamp on the stem places the pipe at around 1935. No one knows exactly when Barling began to stamp four digit numbers. But one rarely encounters them with the small Barling's stamp, which suggests that model numbers came late in the period of that stamp's use.
The updated Barling Pipedia page is just fantastic!
Great stuff!
This odd pipe sold just yesterday for around $100, pretty interesting...
I do not own a Barling as of yet, but hopefully one day I will.
...here's an oddball with another strange stamp, this one says Benjamin,
I love this Japanese site!
http://yeoldebriars.com/barling013.html
Another Japanese site has a really nice Quaint, a similar square panel to the recently sold pipe...
http://west55555.blog21.fc2.com/blog-entry-84.html
Another period term here, "pre-Nichols"
http://www.thepiperack.com/estate-pipe-barlings-make-pre-transition-pre-nichols-l-pot/
Prior to the "Nichols-era", Barlings had minimal stampings, with the only real designation of a higher quality piece being the "Ye Olde Wood" stamp. In addition, Barlings rarely had shape numbers, although size stampings seem to be something that came about in the 1930s.
...and I find these WW1 era soldier carved Barling's to be interesting:
http://estatepipes.co.uk/pipeshop/Barlings-Make-Silver-Mounted-WW1-1916-332
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL36676/
Barling has such a rich intricate history, I think perhaps amongst all the famous old British marques, that Barling's Make is held in the highest esteem of most collectors.
Great stuff!
This odd pipe sold just yesterday for around $100, pretty interesting...
I do not own a Barling as of yet, but hopefully one day I will.
...here's an oddball with another strange stamp, this one says Benjamin,
I love this Japanese site!
http://yeoldebriars.com/barling013.html
Another Japanese site has a really nice Quaint, a similar square panel to the recently sold pipe...
http://west55555.blog21.fc2.com/blog-entry-84.html
Another period term here, "pre-Nichols"
http://www.thepiperack.com/estate-pipe-barlings-make-pre-transition-pre-nichols-l-pot/
Prior to the "Nichols-era", Barlings had minimal stampings, with the only real designation of a higher quality piece being the "Ye Olde Wood" stamp. In addition, Barlings rarely had shape numbers, although size stampings seem to be something that came about in the 1930s.
...and I find these WW1 era soldier carved Barling's to be interesting:
http://estatepipes.co.uk/pipeshop/Barlings-Make-Silver-Mounted-WW1-1916-332
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL36676/
Barling has such a rich intricate history, I think perhaps amongst all the famous old British marques, that Barling's Make is held in the highest esteem of most collectors.
null
Troy,
I'm glad you posted about this pre-Nichols pot. I recall a member on another forum purchased the pipe. I just re-read the piperack page, and I believe it is erroneous in its dating. Or, at least I find a reference to the shape number 267 at the above site, it's a Japanese site, but the relavent info doesn't require translation. Hopefully I posted the link correctly. The Barling's Make stamp also looks like the "larger" stamp, although I leave that to the real experts to determine. These things, plus the L mark, would seem to indicate a later date of production than the "mid '30's". Very interesting.
Dave
Troy,
I'm glad you posted about this pre-Nichols pot. I recall a member on another forum purchased the pipe. I just re-read the piperack page, and I believe it is erroneous in its dating. Or, at least I find a reference to the shape number 267 at the above site, it's a Japanese site, but the relavent info doesn't require translation. Hopefully I posted the link correctly. The Barling's Make stamp also looks like the "larger" stamp, although I leave that to the real experts to determine. These things, plus the L mark, would seem to indicate a later date of production than the "mid '30's". Very interesting.
Dave
Ye Olde Briars is one of my favorite sites and I've included a link to it on the Pipedia Barling page. He's done a fine job with the site and has some really useful items to view. To read it in english (of a sort) you can use Google Translate to translate the page. But if you want to really get some incredible detail on Barling, and its history, you must read Jon Guss' article, "How Many Angels Another Look at the Barling Transition" on Neill Archer Roan's site, A Passion For Pipes. Succinctly put, it's the best for research and it's beautifully written. Tad turned me onto it and introduced Jon and I to each other.
The very beautiful 1920's Barling on the Piperack site does have an "L" clearly stamped on it, but whatever it is, it's not a size stamp. Jon was kind enough to send me a bit of research he's currently doing and all I will say about what's in it is that Barling didn't develop the familiar range of sizes until 1940. Prior to that time, their published line of pipes includes three sizes, small, medium and large. There is as yet no hard evidence to support the statement that Barling was stamping 4 digit numbers as early as the mid '30's. We don't know exactly when such stamping began, and we may never know. But if anyone is going to come up with an answer to that question it's likely to be Jonathan Guss. It's my own feeling from having looked at hundreds of Barling's that such stampings more likely begin sometime between the late '30's to early 40's. And I could be completely wrong.
The Benjamin Barling Pipe was made as a presentation piece for Benjamin Electrics. Barling made a number of pipes for Benjamin Electrics, with the company logo stamped on it, to be given out as gifts. I learned that bit from Gary Malmberg of thesecondhandsmoker. He's a very serious student of Barling pipes. When he shared this with me, he also sent me images of the company and its logo.
The very beautiful 1920's Barling on the Piperack site does have an "L" clearly stamped on it, but whatever it is, it's not a size stamp. Jon was kind enough to send me a bit of research he's currently doing and all I will say about what's in it is that Barling didn't develop the familiar range of sizes until 1940. Prior to that time, their published line of pipes includes three sizes, small, medium and large. There is as yet no hard evidence to support the statement that Barling was stamping 4 digit numbers as early as the mid '30's. We don't know exactly when such stamping began, and we may never know. But if anyone is going to come up with an answer to that question it's likely to be Jonathan Guss. It's my own feeling from having looked at hundreds of Barling's that such stampings more likely begin sometime between the late '30's to early 40's. And I could be completely wrong.
The Benjamin Barling Pipe was made as a presentation piece for Benjamin Electrics. Barling made a number of pipes for Benjamin Electrics, with the company logo stamped on it, to be given out as gifts. I learned that bit from Gary Malmberg of thesecondhandsmoker. He's a very serious student of Barling pipes. When he shared this with me, he also sent me images of the company and its logo.
You know, I completely mis-read the piperack description, I thought they were referring to an L somehere on the other side of the shank, which there is none, not the mark next to the 267. The 267 does appear in the Ye Olde Briars shape list, albeit with EXEXEL. Sable, can you comment on the Barling's Make stamp on that pipe, you have far, far more experience, and have seen more of these marks than I have. I must be seeing it completely wrong. Frankly I hope it is an early pipe, I know the buyer is very happy with it. Yes, I have read Jonathan's excellent article at PassionforPipes.
Definitely the smaller stamp on 267, so I stand corrected, had to go find another Barling's Make to look at and compare it to 1245. Of course nothing is simple, my pipe for comparison has the larger Barling's Make stamp, Ye Olde Wood, T.V.F., Made in England., EL, but a two digit shape number, 37, which is not on the list at Ye Olde Briars. Go figure.
You're writing about the "Pre_Nichols" number Barling that has an actual Nichols number - 267 - on it? I would take the descriptions, and comment, on this site, at least regarding Barling pipes, with a grain of salt.
BTW, Nichols is also an ongoing Guss project. I'll take Guss over anyone, considering his sources, which are a matter of public record, and his expertise as a researcher. Unlike most of us, he works from evidence and facts, not supposition and guesswork.
But as for this piece, it's got a Nichols number on it. So no, it isn't "pre-Nichols", another not important definition, and it's 1940 or later, to be conservative.
BTW, Nichols is also an ongoing Guss project. I'll take Guss over anyone, considering his sources, which are a matter of public record, and his expertise as a researcher. Unlike most of us, he works from evidence and facts, not supposition and guesswork.
But as for this piece, it's got a Nichols number on it. So no, it isn't "pre-Nichols", another not important definition, and it's 1940 or later, to be conservative.
No doubt about the importance and impact of Jonathan Guss's work, the Vintages Project has become one of the most vital resources as of late and it embodies the highest caliber of quality possible --- I'm tremendously thankful that it's public domain and made freely available...
...as much as I'd love to have a complete run of The Pipe Smoker's Ephemeris, it's highly unlikely for me because of the incredible prices, and I think I read somewhere that Tom Dunn had requested for them not to be reprinted --- along the same lines are the Loring Dunhill books and catalog reprints, they fetch huge money, but maybe there is a possibility for an arrangement to be made with the family for a run of reprints? That'd make a great Briar Books Press edition!
Collecting the involved ephemera is often more challenging than anything else!
Regarding the How Many Angels? publication, one of the most striking and unknown aspects to me was the 1928 thing about the Merchandise Marks Act --- just think how absolutely different the whole history of British pipes would be if Barling had won the decision!
Another thing was the pipe-week window dressing contest, from my interest in researching the old UK tobacco industry, I've been in awe of the few pictures I've come across of the old tobacconist/newsagent/confectionary windows that're chockfull of those glorious showcards and such, all arranged in a beautiful manner, I would love to see some photos from the pipe-week window dressing contest!
...as much as I'd love to have a complete run of The Pipe Smoker's Ephemeris, it's highly unlikely for me because of the incredible prices, and I think I read somewhere that Tom Dunn had requested for them not to be reprinted --- along the same lines are the Loring Dunhill books and catalog reprints, they fetch huge money, but maybe there is a possibility for an arrangement to be made with the family for a run of reprints? That'd make a great Briar Books Press edition!
Collecting the involved ephemera is often more challenging than anything else!
Regarding the How Many Angels? publication, one of the most striking and unknown aspects to me was the 1928 thing about the Merchandise Marks Act --- just think how absolutely different the whole history of British pipes would be if Barling had won the decision!
Another thing was the pipe-week window dressing contest, from my interest in researching the old UK tobacco industry, I've been in awe of the few pictures I've come across of the old tobacconist/newsagent/confectionary windows that're chockfull of those glorious showcards and such, all arranged in a beautiful manner, I would love to see some photos from the pipe-week window dressing contest!
Sable, which site's comments should we be taking with a grain of salt, Ye Olde Briars or Piperack? I'm assuming the latter from the context. Also, so I understand, when you say "1940 or later" are you referring to the 267 pipe? I sent Jon Guss a link to this thread, so he may (hopefully) comment this weekend. Again, thank you for your input.
Dave
Dave
nullhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/161105993084?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_6888wt_1170
Another interesting pipe with what seems a cut and paste of information to establish the "dating". I'd actually be very interested in any comments, as I have a pipe with Barling over London England with 1959 on the other side of the shank, pipe is about EXEL in size. It seems there was some variation in the markings during this period. Surprise, surprise.
Another interesting pipe with what seems a cut and paste of information to establish the "dating". I'd actually be very interested in any comments, as I have a pipe with Barling over London England with 1959 on the other side of the shank, pipe is about EXEL in size. It seems there was some variation in the markings during this period. Surprise, surprise.
Don't get me started. He's quoted me, then rewrote me to fit his pitch, then added in bits from other articles. I actually contacted him about it. His justification is that the pipe has "Ye Olde Wood" stamped on it. Yes, the "Ye Olde Wood" stamp was dropped in late 1962. That doesn't mean that the pipe is pre-1962. There's the little matter of the makers stamp. It's a script Barling and the font is an angular script. THAT logo didn't come into use until 1962. And, the "Ye Olde Wood" stamp did get revived later on. I would take his descriptions with a mine of salt.
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