Tobacco Smoke "Taste" - Taste/flavour or Aroma?

[AtlasAirborne]

Hi all!

I've been smoking for a few weeks, and was hoping to bounce my experience off a few folks. I think I've got my packing and temperature management to a serviceable place, but I'm confused by talk of "taste"/"flavour". Mostly I've been smoking RO Fire Storm , SPC Plum Pudding, and a small handful of other Englishes. I tend to point the bit into the middle of the oral cavity, i.e. neither at my tongue, nor at the roof of my mouth.

When I draw, I generally won't experience much taste (fundamental sensation on tongue) or flavour (taste + aroma in the mouth - "this tastes like X"). If I draw a little harder and there's a vinegar-like component to the leaf, I'll get some pleasantly-sour taste. If I draw too hard, I get the taste of acridity/creosote and start burning out my tongue.

If I retrohale, I get negligible pleasant/additional aroma and start frying my sense of smell very quickly (so I tend not to retrohale).

Side-stream smoke invariably smells like unpleasant chemicals, so I avoid it.

99% of the pleasant sensation I get from the smoke amounts to drawing smoke into my mouth with either a modest puff or two, or building up concentration with breath-smoking, then metering the smoke out of my mouth in small puffs and "sipping" it with my nose just enough to get it into my sinus at a diluted concentration. If I'm smoking too hot, it smells pretty generic (ash, and often a subtle anise-like note). If I'm smoking in a way I think of as appropriate/cool/slow, I get a bunch of pleasant aroma and aromatic flavours.

Is this aromatic sensation what is being referred to as "taste"/"flavour", and my terminology just disconnected from pipe-smokers' vernacular, or am I missing a fundamental part of the intended experience when smoking for flavour?

 

[sardonicus87]

All taste is in the "nose", no matter what it is (pipe smoke, soda, food, your spouse...). The tongue can only distinguish generalized flavor of salty, savory, sweet, sour/tangy, bitter. You don't have to retrohale food to taste it, volatile organic compounds naturally make their way up there in the back of their nose. This is a bit of an oversimplification though... but that's how all taste works:

Retronasal smell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The same is true of smoke to a lesser degree (afterall, you're not chewing it like food). Retrohaling just enhances tasting. Don't expect taste to come from your tongue. Beyond that, give it time... it takes some time to develop a palate.

Also, don't try drawing harder/faster to taste more, that will have the opposite effect. The hotter that tobacco burns, the less flavorful it tastes.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This all takes time. Besides sardonicus87's great post, you also have to build a mental vocabulary to help identify tastes and flavors.
Thinbk of the first time you drank a beer. "Bleh! piss" is what most people think, and then after sampling a few beers, you start to differentiate beers.
Try reading reviews while smoking, and switch blends often. I even went through a period of smoking tow pipes loaded with different blends at the same time. It helped to mentally sperate the tow types, and then eventually, I could pinpoint two in the same genre.

Also, if you only smoke once a week, you may never develop a palate of tastes, because yopuy forget things in between smokes. Once a day, maybe, but the real "tasters" usually smoke multiple times a day.
Stick with it, and smoke more.

 

[karam]

Thinbk of the first time you drank a beer. "Bleh! piss" is what most people think

Alcohol, tobacco, the first contact with either of them as a kid was a miserable experience, I remember thinking WHY ON EARTH DO PEOPLE DO THIS, but they have drugs in them which helped along

 

[AJL67]

In reality the snozzberries don't really taste like snozzberries. it's all secondary. .

 

[Old Smokey]

Like Tucan Sam says: "Follow your Nose".

 

[proteus]

It all depends where the smoke hits your tounge. This diagram should help. Also your sense of smell should be tuned so smoke each component individually. Get some pure latakia, pure Virginia, pure burley, pure perique, and Cavendish from different leaves and sweetened vs unsweetened to really know and learn. Or just keep smoking until you discover something new! Don't over think this. It takes time. Smoke slowly too. If the smoke does not linger long enough you won't taste or smell anything.

 

[Non-Mentholated Black Man]

There were two bulls on top of a hill, overlooking a herd of heifers; one young and one old.
The young bull eagerly said "We should run down there and f*ck one of those heifers."
To which, the old bull replied "We should walk down and f*ck all of those heifers."

In other words:
Relax. Slow down. Enjoy.

 

[Old Smokey]

It all depends where the smoke hits your tounge. This diagram should help. Also your sense of smell should be tuned so smoke each component individually. Get some pure latakia, pure Virginia, pure burley, pure perique, and Cavendish from different leaves and sweetened vs unsweetened to really know and learn. Or just keep smoking until you discover something new! Don't over think this. It takes time. Smoke slowly too. If the smoke does not linger long enough you won't taste or smell anything.

View attachment 305330

This is fake.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Of course, PG is supposed to be indecipherable and invisible to the senses, but the "taste like ass" sensors on some people get wires crossed. Medically, this comes from never having eaten pussy.

 

[AtlasAirborne]

Thanks all.

This is less a question of "I'm impatient to get to the good stuff, everything tastes the same" and more checking that when I'm reading things people say, I'm interpreting them correctly. Patience and enjoyment of the journey for its own sake, I understand.

"You're getting it, now develop your appreciation for it" is not quite the same as "You're barking up the wrong tree, keep playing around with technique until you getting more out of holding the smoke in your mouth"

You don't have to retrohale food to taste it.

Sure, but it does help if you're trying to modulate the concentration of aromatics to pick out tasting notes - particularly with drinks, but food as well.

What I'm hearing, in aggregate, is "Yeah, it's mostly in the nose" (even if I'm getting the smoke there in a less-standard manner), "keep the smoke in your mouth longer to see if you pick up more stuff", and "even if you think you're smoking slow/cool, mo' slower is mo' better".

Sound about right?

Still not quite clear on whether directing the bit away from my tongue is a good way to avoid bite while I'm still making mistakes with temp management, or a good way to ensure I never taste much of anything, but that is easy enough to play around with on my own.

 

[proteus]

This is fake.

Perhaps fake is the wrong word here. A better word is incorrect. At one time that was the belief and recently in the last 15 years was proven incorrect stated in the article. Which is interesting nonetheless that society has learned more over time how the human brain perceives tastes. Thanks for the update!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Thanks all.

This is less a question of "I'm impatient to get to the good stuff, everything tastes the same" and more checking that when I'm reading things people say, I'm interpreting them correctly. Patience and enjoyment of the journey for its own sake, I understand.

"You're getting it, now develop your appreciation for it" is not quite the same as "You're barking up the wrong tree, keep playing around with technique until you getting more out of holding the smoke in your mouth"



Sure, but it does help if you're trying to modulate the concentration of aromatics to pick out tasting notes - particularly with drinks, but food as well.

What I'm hearing, in aggregate, is "Yeah, it's mostly in the nose" (even if I'm getting the smoke there in a less-standard manner), "keep the smoke in your mouth longer to see if you pick up more stuff", and "even if you think you're smoking slow/cool, mo' slower is mo' better".

Sound about right?

Still not quite clear on whether directing the bit away from my tongue is a good way to avoid bite while I'm still making mistakes with temp management, or a good way to ensure I never taste much of anything, but that is easy enough to play around with on my own.

Slower, smell instead of taste, wait, be patient, smoke more... yep.
You know, if they all taste the same, and I wish I could say that, because if their was no difference, I'd just smoke the cheapest shit I could find. You've got it made. But really... slower, smell, wait, and more... there ya go. Top notch advice right there.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Perhaps fake is the wrong word here. A better word is incorrect. At one time that was the belief and recently in the last 15 years was proven incorrect stated in the article. Which is interesting nonetheless that society has learned more over time how the human brain perceives tastes. Thanks for the update!

I remember those 6th grade experiments they did in science class. Where they put salt on the salt part of the tongue, sugar on the sugar part, etc... then we looked our teachers right in the eye and we lied that yes, we could not taste salt on the sugar parts. At that point we questioned everything science had told us. The Earth was flat, plants aren't really living things, and rocks held the secrets of the universe. It was at that point that we all started just tossing chicken bones and sacrificing virgins.

 

[revnatorade]

It all depends where the smoke hits your tounge. This diagram should help. Also your sense of smell should be tuned so smoke each component individually. Get some pure latakia, pure Virginia, pure burley, pure perique, and Cavendish from different leaves and sweetened vs unsweetened to really know and learn. Or just keep smoking until you discover something new! Don't over think this. It takes time. Smoke slowly too. If the smoke does not linger long enough you won't taste or smell anything.
View attachment 305330

I did exactly what you described when I first started smoking a pipe. I bought 100 VA, Per, latakia and Cavendish then smoked them all on on their own.

 

[proteus]

I remember those 6th grade experiments they did in science class. Where they put salt on the salt part of the tongue, sugar on the sugar part, etc... then we looked our teachers right in the eye and we lied that yes, we could not taste salt on the sugar parts. At that point we questioned everything science had told us. The Earth was flat, plants aren't really living things, and rocks held the secrets of the universe. It was at that point that we all started just tossing chicken bones and sacrificing virgins.

Well I learned that in grade school in the late 70s and always believed that over the years. I still think I taste like those areas say. Maybe it's just in my head. I tend to aim the smoke toward either side and back and get the best flavor. Plips and roof of mouth and back of throat not my thing. Retrohale introduces even different tastes. I rotate between them. It would seem some areas do respond differently for me depending on tobacco. But science is always evolving and I'm sure in 30 years something else will be discovered and refute all previous beliefs.

 

[AtlasAirborne]

I

Perhaps fake is the wrong word here. A better word is incorrect. At one time that was the belief and recently in the last 15 years was proven incorrect stated in the article. Which is interesting nonetheless that society has learned more over time how the human brain perceives tastes. Thanks for the update!

I remember in highschool answering that thunder was caused by clouds crashing together. I was sure I'd read that somewhere...

Not fake info, just 2400 years or so or of date.

 

[Old Smokey]

Perhaps fake is the wrong word here. A better word is incorrect. At one time that was the belief and recently in the last 15 years was proven incorrect stated in the article. Which is interesting nonetheless that society has learned more over time how the human brain perceives tastes. Thanks for the update!

As an English teacher I'm sorry to say I forgot that word lmao.

 

[anotherbob]

Hi all!

I've been smoking for a few weeks, and was hoping to bounce my experience off a few folks. I think I've got my packing and temperature management to a serviceable place, but I'm confused by talk of "taste"/"flavour". Mostly I've been smoking RO Fire Storm , SPC Plum Pudding, and a small handful of other Englishes. I tend to point the bit into the middle of the oral cavity, i.e. neither at my tongue, nor at the roof of my mouth.

When I draw, I generally won't experience much taste (fundamental sensation on tongue) or flavour (taste + aroma in the mouth - "this tastes like X"). If I draw a little harder and there's a vinegar-like component to the leaf, I'll get some pleasantly-sour taste. If I draw too hard, I get the taste of acridity/creosote and start burning out my tongue.

If I retrohale, I get negligible pleasant/additional aroma and start frying my sense of smell very quickly (so I tend not to retrohale).

Side-stream smoke invariably smells like unpleasant chemicals, so I avoid it.

99% of the pleasant sensation I get from the smoke amounts to drawing smoke into my mouth with either a modest puff or two, or building up concentration with breath-smoking, then metering the smoke out of my mouth in small puffs and "sipping" it with my nose just enough to get it into my sinus at a diluted concentration. If I'm smoking too hot, it smells pretty generic (ash, and often a subtle anise-like note). If I'm smoking in a way I think of as appropriate/cool/slow, I get a bunch of pleasant aroma and aromatic flavours.

Is this aromatic sensation what is being referred to as "taste"/"flavour", and my terminology just disconnected from pipe-smokers' vernacular, or am I missing a fundamental part of the intended experience when smoking for flavour?

I don't know why but a lot of the time it takes a few goes to notice the flavors in a blend. Not always but a lot of it's very subtle. Pipes in my opinion improve with smoking too like the pipe gets seasoned (which in this case means aged) and a new pipe no matter how great it is will smoke a touch flatter. But the thing is a lot of this is subtle and takes a moment to get used too. Which is great because you can smoke a blend for years and still have a nice surprise when a particular note really jumps out.