GMO Tobacco/No Nicotine

[cosmicfolklore]

They change corn, so that if a mouse eats it, it will die. That doesn't make me salivate to eat it.

That is frightening. Have a cite for that bit?

Genetically modified organisms (GMOs) are often engineered to be more resistant to pesticides or produce pesticides themselves. ​

From... GMOs and Pesticides: Helpful or Harmful? - Science in the News - https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/gmos-and-pesticides/

This is just the first website that popped up. If you google it yourself, you will thousands of websites that mention this.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also, if you play around with searching the topic you will see a trend between FDA and AG companies saying one thing, colleges, research, and news saying another. There is an obvious divide on the subject, and the ones doing the modifying are not being transparent, and they are very heavy handed towards the farmers. Sometimes their demands on what and how much of their product5s a farmer must buy, bankrupts the farmers. What other fucking industry is handled this way?

What if the timber industry demanded that their nails and only their wood is used in each house, and builders MUST use 20,000 board feet of their product per house. No stone or brick houses allowed. How is this legal?
Thus, I developed and sold my land. No farmer works for themself any more, despite how many delusions they may have.

 

[depriest1022]

Also, if you play around with searching the topic you will see a trend between FDA and AG companies saying one thing, colleges, research, and news saying another. There is an obvious divide on the subject, and the ones doing the modifying are not being transparent, and they are very heavy handed towards the farmers. Sometimes their demands on what and how much of their product5s a farmer must buy, bankrupts the farmers. What other fucking industry is handled this way?

What if the timber industry demanded that their nails and only their wood is used in each house, and builders MUST use 20,000 board feet of their product per house. No stone or brick houses allowed. How is this legal?
Thus, I developed and sold my land. No farmer works for themself any more, despite how many delusions they may have.

I think we can agree that corporate agribusiness is a real issue without having to agree that GMO plants are necessarily bad. I am not convinced that they are, but my PhD is from the same school that created the Norman Borlaug Institute for Agricultural development (Texas A&M). Borlaug fed many people by modifying crops to resist disease and drought, and he was awarded the Nobel Prize for it.

If modifying crops can reduce hunger in the world, maybe it isn’t all bad.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Here, eat this thing that will make your stomach hurt, and stop being hungry. Jus messin'... but...

 

[depriest1022]

Here, eat this thing that will make your stomach hurt, and stop being hungry. Jus messin'... but...

I get your point, but someone who is starving at 5 is not likely as concerned with a chance at getting cancer at 50 as someone who has easy access to food. He has to get to 50 first.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Also, if you play around with searching the topic you will see a trend between FDA and AG companies saying one thing, colleges, research, and news saying another. There is an obvious divide on the subject, and the ones doing the modifying are not being transparent, and they are very heavy handed towards the farmers.

Yes, thousands of articles, and your posting one very long and somewhat dated article by a University and then telling me to effing google it for examples to backup your statements ain't on, dear cosmic!

As to secrecy, it's a very competitive market, and Pioneer isn't going to let Monsanto (now Bayer) what it's doing.

Sometimes their demands on what and how much of their product5s a farmer must buy, bankrupts the farmers. What other fucking industry is handled this way?

This sounds like a contract where the farmer has agreed to grow a specific crop for a seed company, and the agreement calls for them using specific products for fertilizer and pest control. Things can get out of hand if growing conditions are bad due to weather and infestations.

Otherwise, please say what happened to the example above.

What if the timber industry demanded that their nails and only their wood is used in each house, and builders MUST use 20,000 board feet of their product per house. No stone or brick houses allowed. How is this legal?
Thus, I developed and sold my land. No farmer works for themself any more, despite how many delusions they may have.

Again, sounds like a contract the farmer or land owner entered into. Probably few were at gunpoint.

 

[fireground_piper]

On the other hand, we (earth's society) should also probably slow down on procreation so you don't need to create food in a lab to sustain it in the future. A suggestion that will never, ever happen. It will always be human nature to mettle.

 

[InWithBothFeet]

Genesis 1:29​

My brain and common sense tells me God knew what he was doing and genetically modified plants are not natural. I stay away from GMO foods as much as I can. If I see it on a lable I avoid it. I would not smoke GMO tobacco if I knew it was GMO.

I'd like to point out that god created the angel that revolted against him and ended up being the devil. I'm not sure I'd blindly trust his creations.

 

[jpmcwjr]

And I doubt there are any food stuffs that haven't been genetically altered due to natural selection and Burbank type operations, well before GMO was even possible.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yes, thousands of articles, and your posting one very long and somewhat dated article by a University and then telling me to effing google it for examples to backup your statements ain't on, dear cosmic!

John, with all due respect, I did provide an article, but then said that there were more. I should have stated, "if you so wished to google it." My apologies.

And, as a farmer, I never signed anything with Montesano. If you grow corn, you grow theirs, period. If you wish to dispute this, then finding evidence of this is on you. with all due respect. I did not wish to argue. I was only presenting my case.

I am out of the discussion. And, dear friend, I respect your (and anyone else's desires to eat GMO). I merely presented my own perspective.

 

[InWithBothFeet]

Yea, I read about that. Even if you didn't plant their corn, if anyone in your county did, and they cross pollinated, your corn would test positive for their alterations and they would sue you. Can't keep seed corn from last year's crop to plant this year either, that's stealing their intellectual property and again they'd sue you.

 

[jpmcwjr]

John, with all due respect, I did provide an article, but then said that there were more. I should have stated, "if you so wished to google it." My apologies.

My point was simply one doesn't tell someone to research articles to prove the point the other was making.

And, as a farmer, I never signed anything with Montesano. If you grow corn, you grow theirs, period. If you wish to dispute this, then finding evidence of this is on you. with all due respect. I did not wish to argue. I was only presenting my case.

In this case, there's no dispute. You buy their seed corn, plant it, and hopefully have a good harvest. This doesn't seem like the case of getting bankrupted by Monsanto or anyone else.

I am out of the discussion. And, dear friend, I respect your (and anyone else's desires to eat GMO). I merely presented my own perspective.

I almost always appreciate your perspective. I have no desire to eat GMO products —nor do I fear them. (Though a fan of farmer's markets, where you have to have faith in the grower)

Kinda surprised you are folding your tent.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

(Though a fan of farmer's markets, where you have to have faith in the grower)

Like I said earlier, I have a friend who grows a heirloom seed for corn. I buy his and he has it ground for me.
The reason all commercial farmers end up under Montesano's thumb is that there is no other way to get enough seed to grow it. There isn't any contracts to sign. These fellows who only grow small patches for farmers markets and such, don't have to buy as much as someone seeding over 20 acres. So... it's easier. and, they do get sued by Montesano as that other fellow said, when they try to grow over 10 or so acres. Raise you head up, and you get bonked.

Kinda surprised you are folding your tent.

I could tell by your wording that you were getting more passionate than I wanted you to. I treasure your friendship, John, and I didn't want to come across as twisting your arm. And, I especially didn't want to anger you. It wasn't/isn't an argument that I wanted to put you on a different side than me on. Not my hill to die on, so to say, ha ha.

 

[Briarcutter]

My wife suffers from celiac disease and very sensitive to Gluten. Odd thing is, or maybe not odd, she can eat a certain Italian wheat flour. Wheat isn't what it use to be. She read many books on the subject one in particular that was very informative, I believe the title was "Wheat Belly"

 

[FLDRD]

I like pipe smoking, but have never cared for feeling the nicotine. I'd be pretty happy with nicotine-free tobacco if it could be used to create my favorite blends (which are all Oriental-heavy Englishes and so pretty low nic to begin with.).

As far as the GMO issue, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding. Almost everything you eat has been genetically modified. Natural selection hasn't produced hardly anything in our food supply; thousands of years of artificial selection have, in the form of hybridization (and more recently, other techniques like mutagenesis). Humans have intentionally bred and modified for desirable traits - these processes genetically modify the organism in question. Of course. Any such trait is genetically coded; modifying traits IS genetic modification. Corn would still be a grass if its genetic coding hadn't been modified as one example; that modifying was just done by selective breeding. But same result - modified genetics.

What people refer to as "GMO" is just a new technique of the same old process of modifying genetics to express desirable traits. With transgenic tech, for the first time we have the ability to specifically target a desirable trait without changing anything else. Previous techniques (crossbreeding, mutagenesis etc) all relied on a shotgun approach of dumb luck: "let's try a couple dozen tweaks and see if any of the results are what we wanted, and hope they don't screw anything up in the process.". It was a lot of trial and error, and really just dumb luck when you finally got what you wanted.

Now, we can target exactly what we want and get it right away. If transgenic tech didn't exist we'd still be doing it the old fashioned way - wasting a lot more time, but ultimately ending up with the exact same genetic sequences that the transgenic techniques yeild.

There's no such thing in humanity as not eating "GMOs". There hasn't been since the dawn of the neolithic.

BS & BS.

Natural selection and hybridization are definitively NOT GMO. And GMO is still very much a "shotgun" approach and not nearly as "specific" as some would think.

No, relatively few whole foods have been GMO'd, but almost all processed products that pretend to be food, contain GMO ingredients. Big difference.

And, nearly NOTHING I eat has been genetically modified. It may have been hybridized over centuries, but the food I CHOOSE, almost exclusively, is not GMO.

And I have NOT counseled anyone to make specific choices. This simply came about because I was sharing to answer the "half serious" pondering of GMO products.

 

[olkofri]

 

[FLDRD]

I have 2 things on this. First, there are people that are truly hurt by gluten (ie, they have celiac disease and gluten destroy their intestinal linings).

Second, many people including my sister-in-law chose gluten free as a form of control. She was having problems conceiving and went to a wholistic healer who told her gluten was preventing pregnancy. Obviously not true, but she has been a control freak on family get together meals for almost 20 years and still has not gotten pregnant. - Kind of makes me wonder about some things, but I don’t want to be rude. So, I don’t say anything.

I see no difference here...?
Never said that some don't have true issues.
Just pointed out that for many, there seems to be something different in the wheat "here" vs "there". Some would really like to figure out what that is.

 

[FLDRD]

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Yep, those were the words that brought out the Facebook "Fact Checker Trolls".
I don't see glyphosate written anywhere.

 

[fireground_piper]

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Though, there's a lot of self diagnosis as well. "I have a gluten allergy!".....continues to consume some other food or drink that has plenty of gluten in it because it's not as obvious has bread and pasta.

 

[Wheels]

I didn't mean for this thread to lead to arguments about GMO crops. Sorry about that.

If anyone wants another viewpoint on the corn and rats, here's a link.